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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 To Ellie,

I thank God that I can also laugh at these ridiculous circumstances, under the name of medical care and of course the Manufacturers of tablets.

Wow! Ellie, If you can laugh about it all, you must be filled with a lot of forgiveness.

Several years ago our family went through a time of complete collapse- multiple illnesses, emotional exhaustion, educational collapse, etc. I’ll spare the details at this time, but I will say that early on in that “adventure” when I sensed that we would be involved with a lot of medical /health/educational/social professionals, I prayed a very silly prayer – rather spontaneously:

“Lord may man fail, but may YOU get all the glory for what you are going to do in my family.”

And God did a thorough job answering my prayer. He put us into a position where even the best helpers in the world could not help. In subsequent months just about every person failed us who could fail us - professional’s health workers, friends, relatives, church, pastors, teachers. Each time someone failed me, I remembered my prayer. That made it easier to forgive. And, yes, I too discovered that the church (esp leaders) was nothing that I had assumed. They did not have the answers, and were unable to understand what was happening.

And through it all I found out for real that God could fill in every single role that exists: father, husband, physician, counsellor, advocate, friend, comforter, shepherd….. and there are many more.

I do not regret going through those times, and I do not regret our involvement with anyone – even the ones who failed. They all had something very important to contribute.

Experiences like this makes it possible for our lives to dovetail with others who are struggling – including those who have such a despised sin as homosexuality. My trial helped me see that I was just as sinful as them, because I too was depending on my flesh.

PS: God, please work a miracle in Ellie's brain. May Ellie have the mind of Christ, filled with your peace as she rests in your care.


 2005/9/12 22:39Profile

Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189

 Re: ZIONSLAVE on 2005/9/13 2:51:29

Looka here, ZIONSLAVE
There is something you havent got about this healing etc. If there is a mound of life happenings for God to heal, I have heard it said that it would kill that person, if he healed all the layers at once. Meaning painfull layers, all at once would be a very giagantic pain to release, the person's physical being, could not withstand that much in one go. It depends on how many layers have got bunched together and also entangled with other matters.
If that had been available, to be healed in one go. I would have welcomed that. then I would have had no need for on going healing of the layers. But then, I would not have learnt, about so many things that I now know.
God wants you to learn to recieve his love and his commpassion, this will change a lot of what you believe. He is a Loving, careing, mighty God who loves you very much. Amen

Live a bit more life and then come back and give us the lowdown on what happened and how you then feel about God and your walk with him.
Take it easy look the way God looks upon his people he really cares, loves, can be so leanient, he is patient, its when you actually have real life living experience, through trials that you begin to appreciate his Love and his understanding of our circumstances. etc.

He loves all of us. Amen.


 2005/9/13 0:53Profile



Dont make them believe they have time to start a "healing process" healing comes immediately when you renounce your sin.

Brother, do you really really believe that? I was totally unaware that there are dear brothers and sisters who do not believe in a healing process until today and this saddens me a lot.
When i came to the Lord i became very much aware (after repentance) that i am saved but what i came from i was deeply scared and needed healing but believe me ZIONSLAVE this did not come immediatly! It has taken a long time to get over what happended to me hence it being a "process".
I will pray that God will give you this revelation.
In His Love Geraldine :-)

 2005/9/13 11:48


I identified with some of the things you wrote via what a friend of mine went through.
Here is a poem (one of many) that a dear sister wrote. I didn't know which to put but this one (the longest :-) ) won the vote;

[b]This Little Poem![/b]
I am your workmanship
the creation of your hand,
when i ponder this truth
i begin to understand,
Your very own poem
written upon your heart,
before the foundation of the world
this poem,
You began to start.

Every word, every verse
carefully chosen by You,
to form your masterpiece
with your glory shining through,
uniquely put together
no poem quite like it,
from the beginning to the end,
this poem,
is no misfit!

Why have You made this poem
with no other to compare?
that's set within the heavens
for all creation to share,
who can fathom this mystery
that You, who rule on high,
would take the time to create
me, your little poem,
written upon the sky.

I can't fathom this mystery
but stand back with glee,
that you, Almighty God
would do this special thing,
for someone like me,
Now i see the miracle
the miracle so sublime,
that this little poem
makes Your kingdom shine!

In your great anthology
this poem finds her place,
along with your others
she finds her allotted space,
the place of Your choosing
her rightful destination,
that you prepared before
amongst Your great creation!

[b]Ephesians 2:20[/b]
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 2005/9/13 12:34

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Sister Diane wrote:

If the church was good at understanding what's beneath the surface of people, and would minister to them appropriately, then there would be less need for the mental health profession. Sadly that is not the case. In fact, the opposite tends to be true. The mental health profession has to help set people free from damage they incurred in religous environments. (as you will see if you read further testimonies)

I believe much of today's church is as it was before judgement came on the tribes of Ephraim.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim,
Will be trampled underfoot;
4 And the glorious beauty is a fading flower
Which is at the head of the verdant valley,
Like the first fruit before the summer,
Which an observer sees;
He eats it up while it is still in his hand.
5 In that day the LORD of hosts will be
For a crown of glory and a diadem of beauty
To the remnant of His people,
6 For a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment,
And for strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
7 But they also have erred through wine,
And through intoxicating drink are out of the way;
The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink,
They are swallowed up by wine,
They are out of the way through intoxicating drink;
They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
8 For all tables are full of vomit and filth;
No place is clean.
9 “Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,

Those who lead, those who say they know, only speak with stammering lips because they do not know about the [b]healing promised to those who follow. Listen to the promise.[/b]

Job 33:

14 For God may speak in one way, or in another,
Yet man does not perceive it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
When deep sleep falls upon men,
While slumbering on their beds,
16 Then He opens the ears of men,
And seals their instruction.
17 In order to turn man from his deed,
And conceal pride from man,
18 He keeps back his soul from the Pit,
And his life from perishing by the sword.
19 “Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
And with strong pain in many of his bones,
20 So that his life abhors bread,
And his soul succulent food.
21 His flesh wastes away from sight,
And his bones stick out which once were not seen.
22 Yes, his soul draws near the Pit,
And his life to the executioners.
23 “If there is a messenger for him,
A mediator, one among a thousand,
To show man His uprightness,
24 Then He is gracious to him, and says,
“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;
25 His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.
26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.
27 Then he looks at men and says,
“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
And it did not profit me.’
28 He will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
And his life shall see the light.
29 “Behold, God works all these things,
Twice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

The things spoken of above speak of the ways God chooses to heal those who would listen. Meditate on what the Scriptures say about God's work in man.

Today we believe we have to depend on professionals trained to heal the mind or body because the priests of this generation are broken cisterns with stammering lips.

Out of time
In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/13 12:35Profile

 Re: True healing comes from God

Dear brother Jeff,

I loved your answer to Diane.

Today we believe we have to depend on professionals trained to heal the mind or body because the priests of this generation are broken cisterns with stammering lips.

There are just two problems. One is that the priests don't know they don't know. And the other is - and this is the answer to a question I asked you - is that the [i]only[/i] 'psychology' which [i]WORKS[/i] is that which follows in the style of God's own dealing with people. I could say more about that but, in principle, that's why good mental health professionals are successful. (Remember, some of them are real Christians, too)

The UK has done a study (this millenium - like the one published in the Readers' Digest in 2000), on the usefulness of 'faith' to mental health patients, and discovered a truly economical connection between Christian faith and health, in that those with a faith do much better.

I'd just like to say, that I was truly converted to the usefulness of professional support for those with mental health needs, (altho there is plenty of testimony as to how useless it is or can be) because, at no time did I relinquish my control over how I proceeded. But, they delivered a high standard of care to me as a community contact, which tipped the balance between my being able to access my need for healing, [u]and continuing to [b]deny[/b] it[/u].

I think, between the denial in some churches that some people [i][b]need[/b][/i] healing and the ignorance that goes on the side of those who need healing, there is a place for co-operation between mental health services and Christians. Leanne Payne now advises that wherever possible, they work together as a team. This has to be an option. I'm not saying it should be compulsory.

Lastly, in the realm of recovery for those with sexual dysfunction, the latest thinking is changing all the time - to something better than it was - and, it is understood that some clients will need a [i]team[/i] to support their life (not lifestyle) while they go through several years of changes. I'm all for Christians [i]doing[/i] this for each other, and making the necessary time commitment over years, but, not all are called to it, and it seems a bit mean to leave a Christian to rot, just because their particular church group has little or no understanding of their mental health issues. Fair comment?

 2005/9/13 13:56

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 Re: Please hear what I am not saying

at no time did I relinquish my control over how I proceeded.

Dorcas, These words grabbed me. I have come to learn that good therapy, whether from a professional or a friend, Christian or not, always respects a person’s freedom to choose. It is not controlling. That is important, because, as was mentioned in the thread, The Devil Made me Do it, damaged people have lost their ability to choose. In order for healing to proceed, they must regain freedom of their will. And that takes time and a lot of loving, encouraging people in their lives - people who accept them where they are and don’t push them.

Sadly this is where the church has caused perhaps more damage than in any other way. Zealous Christians have tried to push people into immediate outer conformity to godly ways, while leaving the inner soul in bondage. As long as the church is stuck there, it will never be able to help those with bondages like homosexuality.

This short article by C Finn is very powerful – indeed very stirring. If only everyone could see what people hide underneath their tough outer shells, then they would have deep compassion.
[url=]Please Hear what I am not saying[/url]


 2005/9/13 14:49Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Sister Dorcas

I did not have the time yet to respond to your questions properly. My days are split up into coffee breaks and lunch breaks.

The focus of the article spoke of those seeking help and it also spoke of testimonies which described people who grew to have strong loving relationships within heterosexual ordinances. The affirmation of health was based on a man being fulfilled through the relationship he has with a woman. I do not seek to minimize this testimony nor any other which describes this healing process. Yet what I have not heard much is how the love of God overcame sin. It is the love of God that cries out Abba Father in our hearts, this love only can free us from the bonds of sin.

Again listen to Job 33:

25 His flesh shall be young like a child’s,
He shall return to the days of his youth.
26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
He shall see His face with joy,
For He restores to man His righteousness.

I keep hearing of testimonies which speak of striving to have one's sexual desires satisfied by unnatural or natural sources. We know that fornication, adultery, and unnatural desires are outward manifestations of sin. We also know that Scripture teaches us that Satan tempts us through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. All three of these methods can be applied by Satan to destroy us.

Paul cries out, 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

What is Paul's solution? Romans 8

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

You see if all that we seek is to satisfy our sexual desires there is still emptiness. Jesus said to the woman at the well, you have had 5 husbands and now you are living with another. Jesus is pointing out to her that she will always find emptiness when she seeks fulfillment with the things of this world. Jesus promises her that if she drank of the water that He had to give her she would thirst no more.

Sister Elle also spoke of men failing her. I believe God works in all who live by faith to seperate us from putting our faith in another human. I believe God continually works to decrease our faith in other men and women. What is the result of this work? We learn to take His yoke upon us. We learn of His humble and peaceful Spirit. We experience a love that overcomes Satan and this world.

The very center of the Holy Scriptures say this to those who are being "called out of this world."

Psalm 118:

8 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in princes.

The only man that will never fail you is this man Jesus Christ.

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2005/9/13 15:13Profile

Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189

 Re: thankyou to all


Thankyou to all for such encouraging scriptures and all.
In all the recent threads, from you all.
Amen. Praise you God.


 2005/9/13 16:27Profile

Joined: 2003/11/29
Posts: 20
Orlando, Florida


Dont make them believe they have time to start a "healing process" healing comes immediately when you renounce your sin

I believe that this statement was misinterperated and for that I am sorry. Here is the scripture verse that backs up my statement.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I also want anyone who is angry with me to understand that I probably have more knowledge of living than you realize. I do not think age is a factor in what portion of wisdom is given to Jahs children. I am not proud to say that my knowledge of the Holy is very much sharpened by my past experiences with the unholy. Sometime I will share my testimony on this site. I will not do that tho as a way to defend myself against attacks from people who are being so judgemental.

Just to further clarify I will say that I understand that when we are affected by sin that there are things that will be a reminder of that later in life. I am not foolish enough to think that once we are redeemed that we will never be tempted again or that we will never again have struggles! Here is a passage from Paulus that may give you some clarification of The Almightys affect on a man who is filled with the Holy Spirit.

Phl 3:12-15 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Heres an example of what this is saying....

A boy and his father were buliding a table. When the boy had an opportunity he drove a nail into the wrong spot of the table intentionally just for fun. When the father saw it he was not pleased. He asked the boy why he did this thing. The boy could not answer because he was swept with guilt for his wrong doing. He began to cry. The father, seeing the boys emotion of repentance took the boy up in his arms and wiped the tears from his eyes. He then pulled the misplaced nail out of the table. He showed the boy that even tho the nail was removed there was still a tiny hole where it had been. He told the boy that he loved him and they completed thier work. One day a man caome to purchase the table. He asked the boys father about the tiny whole and the father told the buyer what had happened. The man then accepted the table into his house and as soon as he did the whole dissappeared.

The nail is an example of a human regarding sin in thier heart. The father removing the nail is an example of Christs redemption through his Blood. The tiny hole is the example of the stains of sin left in our flesh after redemption and turning from that sin. The dissapearence of the hole in the buyers house is an example of our new bodies that will be given to us in Glory.


 2005/9/13 17:49Profile

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