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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Has God predestined some for hell?

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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


1Sam. 23:16 (KJVS) And Jonathan Saul’s son arose, and went to David into the wood, and strengthened his hand in God.
This verse has long been a favourite of mine. The word for 'strengthened' is our old friend 'chazaq'. It is a wonderful concept and one to be commended to all servants of the saints. It is very easy to allow people to develop a dependency on us, especially when they are in need and we have something which will help them. Jonathan, however, did not just strengthen David's hand but strengthened his hand in God. The consequence of this exercise was that David became more dependent upon God rather than upon Jonathan. It reminds me of the unwitting testimony to John Baptist's ministry 'they heard him (John) speak and followed Jesus'.

The imagery of Jonathan's ministry at this time is instructive. David did not need anyone to make his choices for him. David made his own choice, but Jonathan 'strengthened' him. It is never the role of one servant to choose for another, but as we are able we are to 'strengthen each others' hands in God'. The power of choice is sacrosanct. I do not believe that God would ever force 'choice' on a created intelligence; that would be to un-man man.

I do not believe that God forced a choice upon Pharaoh but I do believe that God 'empowered' him to make it and to sustain it.

Ron Bailey

 2005/8/25 16:03Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


I find that type debate, quite Cruel and unChristlike also.

Are you now accusing me of being 'cruel and unChristlike' too?

When I was studying computerized engine control systems in the late 80's, early 90's I went to a special class on electricity. i kept asking questions on the nature of electrical theory that were well deeper than the teacher was able to answer. I was not taunting the man- I sincerely wanted to know because I was not content in my level of understanding. The teacher took GREAT offense to this and called my manager. I did not have a clue that my deep digging was making him feel like I was trying to pose questions upon him he could not answer in order to demonstrate my own personal knowledge. I gained a reputation as a smart elec (sp?) and was never able to shed that. I really wanted to know the answers; but what I did not know is that I was asking quantum physics questions of a man who still believed in the newtonian model of an atom. I had no clue and neither did he of quantum theory.

So I came up with a little bit of wisdom for myself as I pondered this through the years. I came up with a definition of the word [b]UNDERSTANDING[/b]. I postulated that it was simply the point at which I was content to ask no more questions. When I no longer had unresolved questions- I sort of felt into a peaceful mode that I considered 'understanding.' in other words, "It made sense" to me. But, what happens when we learn something that causes another question to pop up after we thought we had understanding? We have to go through the whole process again. What agony I go through when I do understand something?

I guess what I am saying here is that 'hair splitting' to one is just another mans quest to answer those agonizing and nagging questions that the depth of his knowledge has unearthed and he no longer 'understands'. And maybe, just maybe, that person behind the other keyboard somewhere in the world and on their journey in God will give a clue- and shed some light in a direction that will either answer or lead to the answer of that nagging question- that 999 out of 1000 Christians could frankly care less about.

Robert Wurtz II

 2005/8/25 16:09Profile

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