The Lord has asked me to deliver this last message.
That would be the one that is called the Lord Jesus Christ that told you that, you said you listen and follow him in your earlier posts are you becoming a rebel for Christ? :-P
| 2005/8/25 10:02||Profile|
I wouldn't use the Lord's Name in vain, nor use it for jokes through "prayers'.
Blake, I posted how I feel on this thread, and so did you, and you "have said", that you feel the Bible is inerrant in the sense, that you do trust it enough to quote it and live by it, as it appears.
That is what I was hoping you'd say ... all the rest of what you've said can be misunderstood enough on here, until the cows come home.
I will stick with John 16:13 and live by that with all the trust in that verse, that God has built into me, over long and very difficult years.
Unless you want this "mince meat making machine" here to go on ... I pray you are right, that this is what God has told you, is your last post.
A sentence here and there within your post, that does say you feel Scripture is truth ... though one needs look hard to see that in there .... should suffice.
For new people especially, this is a "mince meat making machine", for sure ... and no matter 'where' any goes in cyberspace, it is like that. As soon as they sign on, their posts are scrutinized under the Professional microscopes and suspicions are cast immediately on "what denomination are you from ? Are you here with an "agenda" ? Who are you anyway ? What makes you think, you have the right to start a thread here ? ETC. ETC. But that's how it is in the "Church" in cyberspace forums, period.
We're not in the first Church of Acts anymore ... that's for sure.
The few "scholars" will go for the new people faster than a pack of rabid dogs. Or any other meek and mild mannered poster here, who won't defend themselves against the bullies.
And as one fellow said on this thread, I may be banned with this post,(without calling anyone a blatant "hypocrit"), but God's WILL be done.
Without Love, His Love, in and working out of us, NONE of us will be saved. (And no one can rebuttal 'that' thread, that never got a reply. No need to wonder why.)
I don't care how "correct" one thinks they are ... if that Love (And Mercy) is not there and we're not patient enough with each other (especially new comers) and give each other a chance to say what we mean ... then the "Senior Members" will make sure you leave ... in a heart beat.
Or the others who have been belittled by the same and run off, even though what they had to share was from the heart of God, Himself. (I've read back from 2003, so it's not just a recent phenomena I'm talking about here.)
By those who - (though they are just fortunate to be "members" like the rest of us), who feel they must run the whole forum and control what each person posts, and deprive each of the liberty to express themselves .... without the attacking, that begins the Pack Mentality, that's been seen over and over again.
I just cannot stop the grieving that I've had in my heart, from long before I even found this site ... that 1 - we don't see the necessity of 'Love' mixed with 'Spririt' and Truth. And not JUST what we claim is "truth", without the other Two .... and that we don't see The Mind of Christ ... or that we're IN those days when persecution may just be around the corner, and all the "pontificating" in the world, will Not get us 'through' what is coming.
Our burden should be for EVERY SOUL that passes our paths, and for the misguided, unsaved, and those being killed in the womb, or arrested or killed for Christ, all over the world. Matt. 25.
There are some very good guys on this site, that don't speak up so much, but have Christ-like spirits and burdens and vision ... but that's just it ... "they don't speak up much" ... because they can't, less they be "shot-down" by the self-made "scholars and defenders of so-called 'Truth' " .....
And this is what I saw in an old thread about "the Church". (just for one). Amen !
Truth that is not in 'Spirit and Love', is not HIS Truth, at all.
We're commanded to "pray for the Saints and Unsaved, or confused" Everywhere through-out this world ....
I think I'd rather spend my time doing that, than watching grown men cower to self-made "correct-alls" ... bite and devour new people or others, and use His Name for mockings and self-promotion.
Despite it all .....
In His Ever Abiding Peace and Merciful Love.
| 2005/8/25 10:41|
. . . .I don't know who said it first but, I think it is a fitting quote. Thank you for the post Grannie, once again, your honesty and heart for the Lord is refreshing and heart smiting.
"What then is our goal? To destroy those that honestly seek the truth? Or do we seek to destroy the truth so that no man seek it?"
Sorry for the stones i cast, even in a humurous nature, a rock on the noggin' hurts. God's best ot you all.
| 2005/8/25 12:22||Profile|
Quote:"What then is our goal? To destroy those that honestly seek the truth? Or do we seek to destroy the truth so that no man seek it?"
That is a Good one inotof.
1Co 16:13-14 Watch ye, Stand Fast in the Faith, quit you like Men, be Strong .... Let all your things be done with charity.
God Bless you David. Your tender heart showed through for Faith Ann and elsewheres.
Lord prosper you in your Ministry in/to Him.
| 2005/8/25 12:52|
When Mary and Mary went to the tomb of Christ, they were met by one Angel as it says in Matthew or two Angels as it says in Luke? Which was it, one angel or two? ??This small detail shows errancy in the bible. People try to justify it and say, "Well, it doesn't disagree. There were both one angel and two."
This is not an attempt to 'justify'. You are starting from a position of distrust and unbelief consequently your instinct is to find a reason why these narratives disagree and thereby prove your thesis. The believer in verbal inspiration and inerrancy thinks otherwise. His thinking might go something like this...
Luke was almost certainly aware of Matthew's gospel when he wrote his own narrative. He was a skilled historian who knew how to check his sources. And yet he apparently contradicted Matthew; was he stupid? Would he not know that if he contradicted Matthew people's confidence in his own narrative would be undermined? Why didn't he just trim it to fit Matthew's narrative? If I was fabricating a story I would have at least have had the sense to make sure it agreed with an eye-witness apostle. Was Luke the physician less intelligent than I am?
What do I know of Luke's reputation in his writing? Is he usually painstaking in his detail? Luke 1:11 (KJVS) And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the [u]right[/u] side of the altar of incense.
Luke 6:6 (KJVS) And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose [u]right hand[/u] was withered.
Luke 22:50 (KJVS) And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his [u]right ear[/u]. Does this witness strike me as being reliable in the attention he gives to detail? or does he just 'wing it' and make up the details as he goes along. Is his approach generally approximate or scientific? Acts 3:7 (KJVS) And he took him by [u]the right hand[/u], and lifted him up: and immediately [u]his feet and ankle bones[/u] received strength.
Luke 5:12 (KJVS) And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man [u]full of leprosy[/u]: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Everything about this man's witness marks him out as probably the best educated and most careful reporter of events in the NT. His testimony shows constant signs of the most precise attention to detail. Do you think he didn't notice that Matthew had only recorded the words of 'one angel'?
The believer in verbal inspiration and inerrancy says 'everything I know about this witness checks out'. The burden of proof that he is lying or making it up must lie with those who chose to disbelieve him. It is not a case of me 'justifying' Luke; it is rather a case of you proving him an unreliable witness. If he is indeed an unreliable witness, of course, you will have to put both the Gospel and the Acts into the bin. This is ultimately a question of trust. I would rather trust Luke's testimony than my own reconstruction of events. The final question is where do I put my faith; in Luke's credibility as a witness or my own deductive powers? You have made your choice and I have made mine.
| 2005/8/25 15:40||Profile|
To answer a PM I got.
On page 7 I posted ....
Aw come on youse guys ... someone asked what the point of all of these pages were.
I think ALL things work together for the good, [u]to work us into the Image of Christ[/u] Rom 8:28,29.
And this verse comes to mind ...
[b]Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.[/b]
big mouth Annie :-)
What I posted today, above, was out of anguish that we aren't seeing the point or as other's would see this thread.
If a person comes on here, that doesn't "quite have it right" or "as maybe we see what 'right' is" .... instead of using Gal 6:1, we do what was done on here .... and seems, from looking back on many threads ... that is the common practice.
Now, please, I truly DO care ... despite what most will say after I'm long dead or gone, or post elsewhere's since I posted the last one above.
I came on here because of the "pathos or angst" expressed by one Moderator on the Announcement board.
I haven't 'changed', nor have I changed my determination from that day onward to see Peace here. And a place to find peace and be ministered to, in the fellowship of the Brethren.
And my husband and I DO put Truth (as in Apologetics/Exegetical/By The Book) first ....
But let me just share with you quickly, what I've seen and learned over these years and see here.
My husband and I had a period in our ministry, where we put Truth Above Spirit and Love, as the warning to the Church of Ephesus accuses, and have had to go through many 'crushings' from the Lord to sensitize us and make us to see 'our spirit' in slamming truth at the "not yet as 'learn-ed'", as we thought we were.
[b] IF[/b] someone comes on and posts something that we don't agree with or that is not quite right, or whatever ........... and (my main point here now) If, they come on with their view and others watching, who aren't sure "who's" right in this, views our posts, and see us ripping at the person, and that person, being somewhat polite ..... Well then, 'who' will have won the debate ???
Can you see what I mean ?
WE, can destroy Truth with 'our spirits'.
We're supposed to be here (I was led to believe), to help 'anybody', even if they appear to be or 'are' wrong ... but we can't help a soul, if we do here what was done on this thread.
Or to any other member here, who has been hair-spitted to the death, to the point where they fear or just don't bother posting at all.
I only remember 'where and which post' made me a "forum person" again, and 'that' is what has kept me here. To try to help, not worsen the thing.
"Where two or more are gathered in MY Name", He said, "there I am in the midst of them."
Who's NAME are we here for and are outsiders and the confused or just other men welcome to feel free to post here, without being attacked by the Body ?
You decide if what I've said is "backwards or a change of mind", on my part since I've signed on.
Blessed are the peacemakers and those that can 'discern' between trouble makers within their ranks, a clique-ish spirit, a prefering one over another, those who need our help, and read the "heart and spirit" of another's posts, without dissimulation in our love, etc. etc..
Maybe age has something to do with it all, but I don't think so. (Timothy was Humble & Kind)
I think it's just the same junk that my husband and I went through as proud apologists ... and before HE had to beat into us, that without Love, we are dead meat.
Go with God.
| 2005/8/25 22:12|
Quote: "The final question is where do I put my faith; in Luke's credibility as a witness or my own deductive powers? You have made your choice and I have made mine."
I place my faith not in either Luke or myself, but in Jesus Christ.
The fact that these verses do not agree does not hinder Luke or Matthew's witness. It merely shows that they are human. It proves that we cannot trust in men, but only in God. (As it should.)
If only God is good, and only Jesus is perfect, then how can we expect the writers of the bible were perfect also? If you are claiming the bible is perfect, then you are saying the bible is a part of God (for only God is perfect). God includes three (father, son, Holy Spirit), and this does not include the bible. To say the bible is perfect is to say the bible is God. Do you not see?
The Christian faith is based upon the belief in Christ. (John 3:16) We are saved by believing in Christ. This faith is supported and backed by the Holy Spirit.
If someone believes in Jesus because the bible says so, then he has missed out on the whole salvation experience. For when we are saved, we know we are saved by the Holy Spirit that lives within us.
Likewise, a person cannot base his faith or salvation on the bible for what kind of faith is that? Faith can only come from Christ who is Lord over all. Christ is the rock. He is the foundation by which no other can build. The bible is not the foundation. Christ is.
When someone has a salvation experience, he no longer has to rely on the testimonies of Luke or Matthew, for he has a testimony of his own. He will say, "I have met Christ and this is my testimony."
When this happens, the bible does not prove Christ to this person, for he knows Christ personally. He knows Christ because Christ came down from Heaven and washed away his sins making him into a new creation. This person is then born again.
I hope this helps,
| 2005/8/26 8:25||Profile|
But your teaching is faulty to the core.
All of my teachings, messages, and writings have one basis. It is this: Jesus Christ is Lord.
What do you think of this teaching? Do you think it is faulty to the core?
| 2005/8/26 8:28||Profile|
by beenblake on 2005/8/26 8:25:39
I won't "quote" this post above, but Blake, I'll just say ....... I don't agree with you on it and don't want to respond to this thread anymore.
By my posting what I had above, I was not endorsing your beliefs, but trying to strengthen ours, in how we all could better handle debates and those who come on here, saying, "this is my last post" and it seldom is.
I won't go into how I feel again, that the word/Scripture, is there to "keep us from a different Gospel or different Jesus", etc. etc.
But without it, we 'will' have a 'different Jesus'.
It is a free country, so far, so you're entitled to your beliefs, just as we are ... but not to push them down each other's throats.
You don't and we won't have to with you.
He is found by those who Truly Seek Him.
"We know in Part".
| 2005/8/26 8:42|
What do you think of this teaching? Do you think it is faulty to the core?
You play games with words. It reminds me of when the Jehovah's Witnesses come around... you really have to be on your toes with them. My suggestion to believers when the JW's come around is to not even try to talk to them unless you really know what you're doing. Word games, semantics... all designed to cast doubt in a believer's heart.
I'm sure thats not [i]your[/i] intention, Blake... but thats certainly the intention of the one who is behind you're doctrines.
So, in keeping with scripture (you know, [u][b]THE WORD OF GOD[/b][/u]), I am once again shaking the dust off...
| 2005/8/26 9:23|