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 Re: But after this the....

Quote:
Hey Dorcas,

Would you mind if I pulled your post over to the Last Days Doctrine thread ?

Maybe us gals, talking over there on that Topic would more suit this thread.

Annie,

I don't see why not, only I was hoping you could leave an answer in this thread in case it adds to PreachParsly's understanding - or gives him something he hasn't thought of before? Mind you, he can look in that thread too. I'll check it out. Thanks.

EDIT added: Hey ccchhhrrriiisss,

I've been meaning to state clearly, that I agree with what you've expressed about timelessness. When you said about sleeping and waking up, I knew exactly what you meant. It's a type of perceptual disorientation that we are so familiar with, maybe it's a preparation for that very event. EDIT end.

 2005/8/15 11:03









 Re:

Oh friend, I'm too old and feeble to post that again. (Can't you hear the violins playing ? :lol: )

Would this be O.K. ?

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=6767&forum=36&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0


:-?

 2005/8/15 15:09









 Re: But after this the .....

Annie,

The link is great. The answer you gave is more than I could have hoped for. Thank you. Indeed the Lord is good. I hope you slept ok after that? 8-)

 2005/8/15 15:14
filhodedeus
Member



Joined: 2005/8/5
Posts: 7
Brasil

 Re:

I know that this thread as seem to taken on the judgement and eternity flavor, but some earlier posts were made about Hades, Death, and the lake of fire. If I could change gears just a fuzz to offer a different perspective.

According to my understanding, Death and Hades aren't places, they are conditions....states of existence. Referencing The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Hades is described as "the state of death or disembodied existence".

My best interpretation of this is that this condition will be cast into the lake of fire, fullfilling the completeness of God's righteousness and overcoming death, just like the resurrection of Christ, completely and eternally.

These are my opinions based on the interpretation of the Word of God Revelation 20:14. More or less deductive reasoning. Any comments are quite welcome.

Bless you in the name of our Lord Jesus


_________________
Eddi

 2005/8/18 7:48Profile









 Re: But after this the....

Quote:
If I could change gears just a fuzz to offer a different perspective.

According to my understanding, Death and Hades aren't places, they are conditions....states of existence ... "the state of death or disembodied existence".

My best interpretation of this is that this condition will be cast into the lake of fire, fullfilling the completeness of God's righteousness and overcoming death, just like the resurrection of Christ, completely and eternally.

This is not something I've looked into as much as other brethren, and probably yours is an easier interpretation to defend from scripture, than some of the theories which are going around, for instance, that all Christians will escape the great tribulation, to mention just one.

 2005/8/18 20:21









 Re: Great White Throne Judgment

This post is in reply to a post by Dorcas, that has been removed by the Moderators from this thread. Dorcas had problems with my position that only the lost will attend the Great White Throne Judgment. The following are my reasons for my position:

For the Christian to think that she/he will have to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment shows a total lack of understanding of the entire New Testament. Colossians 2:13 tells us "and you, who were dead in your trespasses....God made alive together with Him (Jesus Christ), HAVING FORGIVEN US ALL OUR TRESPASSES BY CANCELLING THE RECORD OF DEBT THAT STOOD AGAINST US WITH IT'S LEGAL DEMANDS. THIS HE SET ASIDE, NAILING IT TO THE CROSS.

What a folly it is to think that our good deeds may one day outweigh our bad deeds. It is folly for two reasons:

#1- It is not true. Even our good deeds are defective, because we do not honor God in the way we do them. Do we perform our good deeds in joyful dependence on God with a view to making known his supreme worth? Do we fulfill the overarching command to serve people "by the strength that God supplies-in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 4:11)?
What shall we say in response to God's word, "Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23)? I think that we shall say nothing. "Whatever the law says it speaks....so that every mouth may be stopped" (Romans 3:19). We will say nothing. It is folly to think that our good deeds will outweigh our bad deeds before God. Without Christ-exalting faith, our deeds will signify nothing but rebellion.

#2- It is folly to hope in good deeds because THIS IS NOT THE WAY GOD SAVES. If we are saved from the consequences of our bad deeds, it will not be because they weighed less than our good deeds. It will be because the "record of our debt" in heaven has been nailed to the cross of Christ. God has a totally different way of saving sinners than by weighing their deeds. There is only hope in the suffering and death of Christ.
There is no salvation by balancing of records. There is only salvation by canceling records. The record or our bad deeds (including our defective good deeds), along with the just penalties that each deserves, MUST BE BLOTTED OUT- not balanced. This is what Christ suffered and died to accomplish.
The cancellation happened when the record of our deeds was "nailed to the cross" (Colossians 2:13). How was this damning record nailed to the cross? CHRIST WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS, so Christ became my/our damning record of bad (good) deeds. He endured damnation. He put my/our salvation on a totally different footing. He is our only hope. And faith in Him is our only way to God.

Some of the reasons why Christ suffered and died:

1. To absorb the wrath of God- Galatians 3:13; Romans 3:25; 1 John 4:10


2. To please His Heavenly Father- Isaiah 53:10; Ephesians 5:2


3. To show the Wealth of God's love and grace for Sinners- Romans 5:7-8; John 3:16; Ephesians 1:7


4. To cancel the Legal Demands of the Law against us- Colossians 2:13


5. To become a ransom for many- Mark 10:45


6. For the forgiveness of Our Sins- Ephesians 1:7; Matthew 26:28


7. To provide the Basis for Our Justification-Romans 5:9; Romans 3:24; Romans 3:28


8. To Complete the Obedience that Becomes our Righteousness-Philippians 2:8; Romans 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9


9. TO TAKE AWAY OUR CONDEMNATION-Romans 8:34


10. To abolish Circumcision and All Rituals as the Basis of Salvation- Galatians 5:11, 6:12


11. To Make Us Holy, Blameless, and Perfect-Hebrews 10:14; Colossians 1:22; 1 Corinthians 5:7


12. To Give Us a Clear Conscience- Hebrews 9:14


13. To obtain for Us All Things That are Good for us-Romans 8:32


14. To GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL WHO BELIEVE ON HIM- John 3:16


15. To deliver us from the Present Evil Age- Galatians 1:4


16. TO RECONCILE US TO GOD- Romans 5:10


17. TO BRING US TO GOD- 1 Peter 3:18; Ephesians 2:13


18. SO THAT WE MIGHT BELONG TO HIM- Romans 7:4; 1 Cor 6:19-20; Acts 20:28


19. To give us confident access to the Holiest Place- Hebrews 10:19

20. To become for us the place where we meet God- John 2:19-21

21. To bring the Old Testament Priesthood to an end and become the eternal high Priest- Hebrews 7:23-27; Hebrews 9:24-26; Hebrews 10:11-12

22. To free us from the futility from our ancestry- 1 Peter 1:18-19

23. To free us from the slavery to sin- Revelation 1:5-6; Hebrews 13:12

24. That we might die to sin and live to righteousness- 1 Peter 2:24

25. So that we would die to the law and bear fruit to God- Romans 7:4

26. To enable us to live for Christ and not ourselves—2 Corinthians 5:15

27. To make His Cross the ground of all our Boasting- Galatians 6:14

28. To free us from the Bondage of the fear of death- Hebrews 2:14-15

29. SO THAT WE WOULD BE WITH HIM IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEATH
1 Thessalonians 5:10; Philippians 1:21, 23; 2 Corinthians 5:8

30. To secure our resurrection from the dead- Romans 6:5; Romans 8:11; 2 Timothy 2:11

31. TO RESCUE US FROM FINAL JUDGMENT- Hebrews 9:28

When the "Books" are opened at the Great White Throne Judgment they are opened by the Great Judge Jesus Christ. Every man that attends this judgment will have to compare his life with the requirements- God's Law. Every man that attends this judgment is found lacking when his works are compared to the required works, that could only be performed by God- Jesus Christ who took on flesh and died on the tree for the sins of mankind. The problem has always been that this is a free gift that humans have to accept or reject. The ones that accept this gift will not attend this judgment, only those who have rejected it. Their works are compared to the requirement- HIS WORKS. Next, the Book of Life is opened. At one time every mans name was written in the Lambs book of life. When that person rejects the gift (Jesus Christ- the Messiah, the "Seed of the Woman"), their name is blotted out of it: Psalms 69:28; Psalms 109:13. At this judgment, at this trial, the Book of Life is opened as proof that they are not in it. At the end of this judgment, every knee will bow to Him, and they will all be cast down to hell.

Hope this is helpful to all.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/8/20 13:45









 Re: But after this the ....

Dear Stever,

Quote:
[b]This post is in reply to a post by Dorcas, that has been removed by the Moderators from this thread[/b]. Dorcas had problems with my position that only the lost will attend the Great White Throne Judgment...

For the Christian to think that she/he will have to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment shows a total lack of understanding of the entire New Testament.

My most complete response to your earlier posts, is the first post by me on the previous screen (page 5) from here.

I'm not sure if you've had time to read it, as you have not responded to any of my points; I will not go back over that ground in responding here, to my quote from you (above), for obvious reasons, therefore.

[b]I've checked through this thread twice, completely, and can't find any post which has been removed by moderators[/b]. (Usually the moderator leaves the envelope with the post-er's name, and writes in place of the post, to show it has been removed.)

I did post, asking GrannieAnnie a question. She copied the post and answered it in full in the thread called 'The Last Days'.

 2005/8/20 15:26
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

dorcas posted:

Quote:
As ccchhhrrriiisss said in another post (not in this thread) it was Bro Ravenhill who told him to test everything.



I thought it was interesting that you brought up that Ravenhill told him to test everything... interesting on this topic because Ravenhill belived in 2 judgements.... you can hear it in the sermon Hell Has No Exits... he talks about the belivers judgement having Christ on the throne and the Great White Throne he belived was God sitting on the throne... I think he said that about 3 mins into the sermon..


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2005/8/20 20:22Profile









 Re: But After this the ...

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in [u]the book of the law[/u] to do them.

The 18 other references to 'the book of the law' are in the Old Testament. There are no references to 'book[b]s[/b] of the law'.

I may be too much of a lateral thinker, but to me, if the verses say the judgment will be 'according to their works' (of all those present), there is no need to bother with the book of life, if no-one's name is in it. Just bring the books which contain the 'works'. So God wants the book of life there. This suggests He expects to find those named in it, present.

As I said in an earlier post, we learn what we are to be judged on, from scripture, and we should receive this information as signposting to LIFE.

 2005/8/20 21:33
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi PreachParsly...!

Quote:
dorcas posted:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As ccchhhrrriiisss said in another post (not in this thread) it was Bro Ravenhill who told him to test everything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I thought it was interesting that you brought up that Ravenhill told him to test everything... interesting on this topic because Ravenhill belived in 2 judgements.... you can hear it in the sermon Hell Has No Exits... he talks about the belivers judgement having Christ on the throne and the Great White Throne he belived was God sitting on the throne... I think he said that about 3 mins into the sermon..

Yes, Leonard Ravenhill explained to me the importance of testing everything. In fact, during our visit, I spoke very fondly of David Wilkerson and a couple other "great" men of God. Brother Ravenhill kindly reminded me that all of these men are, of course, [i]just men[/i]. He warned me to not accept any man's word as authority regarding any matter -- including [i]his own[/i]. He reminded me that even Peter [i]the pillar[/i] was rebuked by Paul for teaching something contrary to the truth.

Since that meeting, Brother Ravenhill's instructions have served me well. I have heard quite a few wonderful men and women of God teach and preach many things. On occasion, their messages sometimes have contradicted one another in matters of doctrine. Most of the time, the matters of disagreement have concerned minor issues of doctrine. But from time to time, the matters have seemed to include major doctrinal disagreements.

I remember hearing a recorded message from David Wilkerson that I purchased from World Challenge. In the message, he spoke about a fallout that he had with Keith Green shortly before he passed away. Keith Green and David Wilkerson were having a discussion concerning the plans of God. During this conversation, Keith Green mentioned that God had told him that he was going to live to see his great grandchildren. Brother Wilkerson told him that God doesn't even promise us [i]tomorrow[/i], let alone tell us such exact personal plans forty years in advance. They had such a heated debate that they parted company that evening. A few weeks later, Keith Green died in a plane crash.

Such disagreements can be expected from time to time. Even Paul disagreed with Barnabus concerning John Mark. In matters of doctrine, we must first consult the Word of God. We can consult the teachings of other men of God (including those classic "giants of the faith") -- but with the understanding that all such men [u]can[/u] and [u]do[/u] make mistakes. The only complete authority we can take in all matters of doctrine and faith are what we feel the Spirit has revealed to us from the Word.

In this topic about judgment, there are several fine arguments and theories. I am at a point where I lean toward [i]one day of judgment[/i] where all humanity will be present, and the nations will be judged and seperated (or vice versa). But I am quite open to the idea that I may be wrong. The point is -- I have not taken a doctrinal [u]stand[/u] where the possibility remains that I might be wrong. There is a danger in being too easily convinced on an issue. We must search the Scriptures with great earnestness and honest prayer -- like the men of Berea (Acts 17:11).

My dad once gave me a nice piece of advice: [i]Always listen to correction. Don't despise it when you are right. But never neglect it if you are wrong[/i]. I will continue to study this topic with great intrigue. The important thing, though, is that we already know what our [u][i]verdict[/i][/u] will be.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2005/8/20 23:42Profile





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