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5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Well I watched this post grow and grow but got completely off track from the original issue. I think everyone realizes this now.

I would like to add my comments concerning a homosexual being a Christian. Scripture is very clear.

1 Cor. 6:9-10 clearly shows us that a homosexual can't be a Christian. When we are saved we are set free from our sin. This is not to say we will not be tempted with some of the same old sins. There is a way of escape though.

Noone who is born of God practices sin. If a person is still a homosexual then they are practicing sin.

To look at a person and lust is also sin and if it is the practice of your life then perhaps something needs to be examined in your heart. But to see an attractive person and know they are attractive does not mean you are lusting after them. We will struggle and sometimes fall but we cannot make peace with sin and make it our practice.

In Christ,

Mike


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Mike

 2003/12/11 9:11Profile









 Re:


Just for the record, I am not a homosexual. But I do have F(f)riends who are and whom I hold in high regard because of their dedication to public service and their charity to those in need. These are attributes I find lacking in many heterosexual professed Christians. When I ask myself if their sexual orientation hinders in any way their ability to love others as themselves, I find the answer is clearly no.

 2003/12/11 11:13
nobody
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 64


 Re: Missing Conclusion?

I know some great people who are sodomites. Therefore.....WHAT?

If I buy the fact that being a good guy has anything to do with the truth I will become a Mormon and forsake my Christianity because more professing Mormons are moral people than professing Christians. I'll just trade the truth for a lie and be damned to hell.

The fact is that sodomites have always been recipients of God's wrath. Any who don't repent will be damned to hell eternally. Repentance requires giving up that sin and striving for holiness.

Scripture may have a few small passages which are very difficult to interpret or to prove were actually in the original text, but all of these passages added up together could not make or break any belief or doctrine. The chance that Scripture is so errant that even things which are said over and over again (don't think that sodomites are only ignoring one verse) are the exact opposite of the original is inconcievable. The fact that some who have reprobate minds and burn with ungodly lusts will ignore Scripture or try to twist it to allow their sin isn't surprising at all.

Imagine the foolishness of the sodomites in California who invited Dr. John MacArthur to debate them from the scriptures on this issue. He layed down scriptural evidence that was unrefutable. They responded with the typical "David and Jonathan" lame-brained argument that goes something like this: "David and Jonathan kissed each other and loved each other so that justifies the sodomite." Ridiculous. That sermon of MacArthur's that discusses this issue is on this site- check it out (everyone should also hear his sermon on Perfecting the Saints, which is unrelated except for the obvious general relation).

I love sodomites in the way John the Baptist would have - Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!



 2003/12/11 12:27Profile









 Re:


Nobody,

The homosexual would counter that God made them that way. Would God create a soul for the purpose of going to hell? That would not be a God of love.

Jake

 2003/12/11 14:15
5nva
Member



Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179


 Re:

Jake:

Please stop making God into something He is not. God didn't make someone a homosexual. It does not matter what the homosexual person says. God's word is true and every man a liar.

You seem to trust what man says over what God says. How sad this is.

God has not created you and I or anyone else to go to hell. He desires that all men come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Romans 1:24-28 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie..

Clearly scripture tells us that it is us that turn away from God and His word and go after our own desires and lusts. We are all by nature chiildren of wrath but God has provided a way to be reconciled to God and free from that nature.

Praise Jesus Christ for His salvation.

We need to look at John 3:16 as a salvation and love verse but also as a judgement verse. Whoever shall believe in Him shall not 'perish'..

I do not understand how any true Christian, born again of the Holy Spirit, can say and believe that a homosexual can be a Christian.

I believe, and I say this with love, that you need to repent of your false beliefs ans statements and ask God to show you the truth.

Sincerely,

Mike


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Mike

 2003/12/11 14:33Profile









 Re:



RE: “Damned to Hell” I’ve seen these threatening words in numerous posts on this web site and find them provocative. People respond poorly to threats and usually put up defenses and stone walls when threatened. So, threatening sinners with hell is unhelpful and puts the person using these words in the seat of judgment.

 2003/12/11 14:42









 Re:

Mike,

There are numerous examples of homosexual behavior in animals. They don't make conscious choices and so, God made them the way they are.

Personally, homosexuality gives me the creeps and I find it repugnant. But I cannot discount the testimony of people who are in every other manner exemplary Christians.

Jake

 2003/12/11 15:10
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
There are numerous examples of homosexual behavior in animals. They don't make conscious choices and so, God made them the way they are.



This is not a sound argument. People see Rover mounting Spot and think it's homosexual behavior. The problem is that Rover will mount the table leg or even your house guest's leg just as quickly. He is simply acting on an impulse.

This animal argument of yours fails to distinguish between desire and behavior. An animal has an impulse to do something and it acts upon it. There is no higher nature that allows it to judge morally, more acceptable impulses from those that are less acceptable. We can't say the same for man.

Here's a question for you. Even if it could be proven that homosexual behavior was natural in man, is he therefore not accountable?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2003/12/11 16:27Profile
Malachi
Member



Joined: 2003/12/8
Posts: 11
UK

 Re:

Homosexual orientation seems to me to be a result of either the fallenness of humanity or the tempting of the devil (or both), depending on your theology.

It is evident from research that humanity cannot be simply split into men and women, at least not now, the line between gets fuzzy in places. ( another result of fallenness?)

The problem comes with the practice of inappropriate sexual acts - to which I believe the correct course of action under God's rule is abstinence. This is true for sodomy as it would be for a heterosexual relationship outside of marriage.

Thus sodomy is a sin. Fortunately it is one which I do not feel the need to pursue. However this has not prevented me from on occasion breaking speed limits - endangering the lives of others, coveting my neighbours ass(ets), or committing many other sins. This is why we have confession at most church services - recognising our shortcomings as humans.

Since I became a Christian, many years ago, I have tried to stop myself from doing things which are unrighteous - but i am a man with unclean lips, and I dwell among a people with unclean lips.

How can anyone measure the size of a sin? Only God will judge and I hope he will have mercy on sinners or we are all for the fires of hell.

The bigger problem for the C of E is homosexual clergy and church leaders. I think that when Paul wrote to Timothy that church leaders should be respectable people - not prone to sinful acts and drunkenness, this indicates that homosexuals, adulterers and philanderers are to be excluded from office. This is hard to do without seeming to be anti-gay.

Don't rail against the sinner for you are only shouting in your own face. Pray for them that they and we might turn away from sin, wherever we encounter it.

I hope to see the churches full of sinners, as the righteous have no need of the gospel.


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David Hargreaves

 2003/12/11 16:51Profile









 Re:



Philologos wrote:

"I would heartily recommend George' Fox's Journal, as amazing account of the 'law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus' in the life of a man. Also, Robert Barclay's Apology; there is a version of this online and I have put a link to it in the Books section. Also William Penn, No Cross No Crown."

Yes, George Fox's Journal is quite amazing. For those interested I would also recommend John Woolman's Journal, an account of his work on the Abolition of Slavery. Valiant Friend, The Life of Lucretia Mott is also an excellent accounting of a woman minister working to end slavery. At her death in 1880 she was called "the most venerated woman in America." Lastly, members of this forum will enjoy the writings of Rufus Jones, a very "weighty" Friend and scholar.

Jake

 2003/12/11 17:22





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