Jake:

Personally, I have a high regard for George Fox and the Quakers especially in the area of experiencing God's leading. Richard Foster (also a Quaker) is an author whom I have great respect.

I also agree that "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor. 3:6). Merely a mental understanding of the Bible does not nurture our spiritual life. We need the empowering Spirit to enable us to see the implications and the relevance of the biblical truth in our own specific circumstances, and to help us submit to the authority of the Word. (This is what some theologians call [i]illumination[/i].)

I also believe the Holy Spirit may give specific guidance to individuals, however, this guidance does not contradict the clear doctrines and moral teachings of the Bible.

All of the above, I think, is more or less consistent with what you have quoted. That is to say, I have no problem accepting that quote.

However, I think the authority and canonicity of the scriptures imply that this illumination of the Holy Spirit must not contradict the written word of God (and as Philologos pointed out, this is the position taught by George Fox).

Finally, there are many philosophical implications of reincarnation that need to be considered and resolved. If all of us were reincarnated from a former life, and since the population of the world had been increasing, then where did all the extra souls come from? What about Cain and Abel and Seth -- who were they in their former reincarnation?

By the way, the [i]Old Souls[/i] book by Thomas Shroder seems more like a travel journal to me, and the people he interviewed all live in cultures that believed in reincarnation (where biases might be introduced). It will take a lot more than a book like this for me to accept anything as [i]"compelling scientific evidence."[/i]

I am also curious:

a) Why is reincarnation so important to you? What's the significance of believing in reincarnation?

b) Moreover, if the basis of your belief in reincarnation comes from a book (which belongs to the "new age" section of a bookstore), how do you come to the conclusion that this is a revelation of the Holy Spirit?

c) How do you discern the difference between the subjective views of an individual and the "present revelations" of the Holy Spirit?

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Sam

I will try answer your questions. I find no significance in reincarnation. Thomas Schoder is a widely respected journalist and not a New Age writer. He began his investigation as a complete, agnostic skeptic and subsequently became convinced. But nothing about reincarnation affects my belief in Christ. It does explain alot to me though; about how people born before Jesus can come to salvation, how people born in foreign cultures where He is not known can come to salvation, etc.

Next, revelations can spring from anywhere! Do not close your mind (heart) because you think a source is questionable. Listen to the still voice within and ask it to discern for you. It will.

Lastly, subjective views and revelations from God are vastly different things, and you know it. Subjective views come from your head, revelations are felt in the bones.

Jake

hi jake

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Ron Bailey

hi jake

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Ron Bailey

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Ron Halverson

Reincarnation?!?
Those who were born before Jesus are still saved by faith. Moses, Noah, Elijah...they have not been reincarnated in any way shape or form. They are saved by faith, and faith alone.
Christ died for all, and that wasn't just from His time onward. He made it possible for *all* to be saved, including those before His time.
Remember, God is outside time.

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Mary M.

Apostate? It is the mainstream Christians who have gone apostate. Jesus told us to love our enemies and to lay down the sword, but we have many "Christian" soldiers who support war.

"I wouldn't be suprised if 'Reincarnation' is accepted in some of the doctrinal statements in 'Friends' fellowships these days.. they accept alot of bad stuff."

If you knew anything about Friends you would know that we don't have doctrinal statements at all. We were persecuted in the past because we refused to recite doctrinal statements.

Reincarnation is my personal belief and not part of any Friends testimony. It makes sense to me that souls of people and animals can not be destroyed and pass from one existence to the next.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:


"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."


20Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

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Mark Nash

Jake:

Thank you for your feedback. It helps me to understand better where you are coming from. I respectfully disagree with you in many points, however, it certainly is easier to dialogue this way when we are aware of each other's presuppositions.

My main point concerning [i]Old Souls[/i] was not to dismiss the book because I believe the author is New Age, my point is that it is written in the genre of a travel journal/documentary, which certainly had a limited scope and was limited to cultures that already believed in reincarnation. On this basis, I could only accept what Thomas Shroder wrote as a [i][b]possibility[/b][/i] (among many others), not as hard, solid scientific [i][b]proof[/b][/i] (as in the law of gravity). So I am arguing from reason that may be we should not be too hasty in accepting his conclusions.

Second, I still want to push for clarification of the philosophical implications of your understanding of reincarnation. I understand how it might explain some issues (such as how salvation comes to those who were before Christ), it also leads to many philosophical and theological questions. (I have also pointed some out earlier, which were not answered).

For instance, do you presuppose that all souls exist before their appearance on earth? Otherwise, how do you account for the souls of the increasing population on earth? Does everyone have a former life? Without a clear view of this, reincarnation remains a vague concept. Moreover, who decides who gets to reincarnation into what? (Do I turn into a dog in my next life if I am a bad person in this life, as the Hindus believed?) So while reincarnation might seem to explain a lot to you, it also opens another can of worms!

Finally, a question of authentication: do you firmly believe that the concept of reincarnation is a revelation from the Holy Spirit to you (as you seem to have implied)? How do you prove the authenticity of this revelation? If three people "felt in their bones" that they have received a revelation from the Spirit, yet they are mutually exclusive, what are we to do?

I enjoyed the interaction and I hope you did too.

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Sam