Poster | Thread | murrcolr Member

Joined: 2007/4/25 Posts: 1839 Scotland, UK
| Re: | | That's your opinion and can't be backed up by scripture, you seem to think it is carnal to seek after the gifts of the Spirit.
Paul twice tells us to “earnestly desire” them, adding, “especially that we may prophesy” (1 Corinthians 12:31; 14:1).
Jog on
_________________ Colin Murray
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| 2024/2/10 15:19 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | You can not do without baptism of the Spirit. As scripture says, you are not saved without it.
I don't know why people keep harping on about cessationists when there are none here.
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| 2024/2/10 15:23 | Profile | KervinM Member

Joined: 2019/1/15 Posts: 391 South Africa
| Re: | | I know I had signed out of this thread but may I be forgiven just this once. Yes the sister is not be understood as a Cessationalist. Rather with toungues, she believes they were never the way we present them and thefore as a professed continualist expect them to only contintue the way she understands they started. The thread got confused because it was strated around the same time with the On tongues one.
I am glad that many posts have done justice to what I have just tried to clarify.
At brother Evan, while it is easy to get carnal about it, as I said on another thread, it is not wrong to talk a matter over in hope to find clarity. And it is in these talks where you may get to see who is falling short of the Christ-like spirit. But discussions themselves are not wrong.
And if you may try to understand the issue well, brethren are being offended because that which they cherish (who does not cherish a gift though received from an earthly giver?) is being being suspected to be a possible curse. And so they are trying to lay out supporting arguments that seek to show that the whole thing is supportey by scrptures.
So it would be nice to share your input on the topic instead, brother Evan. Especially as you have seen on the other thread that this issue was said to be big enough that praying together could not be possible. Is it therefore not worth being ironed out in hope that the Lord may grant clarity where needed? _________________ Kervin
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| 2024/2/10 15:51 | Profile | ESchaible Member

Joined: 2023/6/24 Posts: 548
| Re: | | Kervin,
The irony of anyone taking offense over these topics is that if anyone was truly, in reality and not in doctrinal theory, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they wouldn't take offense, or feel it necessary to defend whether or not they were actually baptized in the Holy Spirit. The truth is, Jesus - and the Holy Spirits purpose is to glorify Him, not our experiences and prejudices against others and how they believe about these things.
This thread is entirely centered on the power of the Spirit, and yet the trend of the debate is away from each other, division, strife, and if what you said is true and it has been stated "brethren" in this thread are even unable to pray together as a result of these discussions, well it has to be said, perhaps not all here are in fact "brethren".
If you are truly indwelt with the Holy Spirit, you will find in your life an all consuming passion for, and devotion to Jesus - and will lift Him up in all things. The gifts are secondary to the primary purpose of God, the glorification of Jesus and the manifestation of God in love (see 1st John).
This entire thread glorifies individuals and their experiences and explanations, and all the while the words of Jesus are heartily ignored. It doesn't even make sense for me to quote Jesus teaching on the Holy Spirit, or to mention how that teaching is to be the central truth and guiding interpretation to any discussion about the work of the Holy Spirit - I'll get told, to quote Colin, to "jog on".
I tend to think that this exact type of thing, these fruitless and endless debates, the appeals to men and one saying, "I am of the holiness movement" and another "I am of the Pentecostal movement" - this is exactly what Paul talked about in his epistle. To be blinded to that is baffling to me. It's a literal fulfillment of everything Paul told us to avoid.
You all may mean well, but this entire thread makes anything your discussing a laughingstock - if it causes this amount of division, anger and strife, it doesn't glorify Jesus in the least.
The irony here is that no matter what I say no one will get it anyway, because the Holy Spirit has to quicken these things to each of us individually - and intellectual pride, a prejudicial reliance on our experiences, and an unwillingness to be authentic rather than right are all hindrances to this very thing - the Holy Spirit you are arguing about is grieved and quenched - therefore you won't hear Him if He were to speak.
This thread is in miniature what Corinth was in large - and to miss that is astounding.
God will not grant any of you clarity in this matter, because in order for that to happen, every single one of you would have to harbor the possibility that you could be wrong - and that means you would all have to be authentic and real with one another. This, it seems, is impossible. Walking in the light is to walk in authentic relationship with one another and with Jesus - you all disagree with each other, yet not one of you could possibly be wrong - if it wasn't tragic you would think this scenario was a punch line.
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| 2024/2/10 16:34 | Profile | KervinM Member

Joined: 2019/1/15 Posts: 391 South Africa
| Re: | | Edited
Re-subscribing to the thread for now.
I see I may have been a bit late but wished to add to my previous post the following: offended (in Christ)...
Also, I wanted to add that it is not only offense but condemnation also, brother. That those who are presenting tongues in the manner the majority did have gotten it wrong and must make amends. What do you do when thus condemned, brother Evan - seat back and watch or try to reason so far as is justified (like Paul would do with the Jews, etc)?
PS. Brother Evan, my advise to you is to not generalise (like you tend to do on heated talks) but to take time and censor each commentor where warranted and share supporting scriptures accordingly. Because not two of us are on the same spiritual journey distance I think. This is practiced by brother Travis for one and I commend it. _________________ Kervin
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| 2024/2/11 2:17 | Profile | drifter Member

Joined: 2005/6/6 Posts: 1025 Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: | | "The extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, such as the gift of tongues, of miracles, of prophecy, &c., are called extraordinary, because they are such as are not given in the ordinary course of God’s providence. They are not bestowed in the way of God’s ordinary providential dealing with his children, but only on extraordinary occasions, as they were bestowed on the prophets and apostles to enable them to reveal the mind and will of God before the canon of Scripture was complete, and so on the primitive Church, in order to the founding and establishing of it in the world. But since the canon of the Scripture has been completed, and the Christian Church fully founded and established, these extraordinary gifts have ceased." -Jonathan Edwards
I don't agree with Edward's statement here, but it would be beyond silly to call Jonathan Edwards a heretic.
Someone I consider to be a dear brother in Christ rejects my testimony and calls me a false convert. I love him, forgive him, and call him a friend to this day. I have absolutely no bitterness.
It is very telling to me the visceral, angry reaction some people have when you even QUESTION their doctrine on the gifts of the Spirit. Everyone who doesn't see things exactly the way you do is a religious Pharisee. I think if you look over the history of the church, you will see God using people who are soundly saved and preach the gospel, regardless of their views on this subject. _________________ Nigel Holland
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| 2024/2/11 21:32 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | Paul clearly answers the dispute by giving us 1 Corinthians 13 and 14.
Chapter 13 is about love which is in its' entirety, the fruit of the Spirit (not one of its' fruit(s)) and comes FIRST: chapter 14 follows and condemns how they were practicing the gift of tongues described in Acts 2. |
| 2024/2/12 4:05 | Profile | KervinM Member

Joined: 2019/1/15 Posts: 391 South Africa
| Re: | | Edited (changed whatever to some - for graceful language)
Brother Nigel, some things needs to be corrected while others could be borne with.
"[39] Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
Some were, for some reason, tempted to forbid speaking in tongues. Paul comes in and say: forbid not. Let it continue - only in orderly manner. _________________ Kervin
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| 2024/2/12 5:34 | Profile | KervinM Member

Joined: 2019/1/15 Posts: 391 South Africa
| Re: | | Edited
@sister Brenda. I agree Paul thus address the dispute of gifts at Corith. I however wish to remind you that if you still cannot pray with me as well as all other thread participants here,who asserted tongues as I did, then the core of what brought about our dispute remains unattained.
We are back where we started. And still needs help (however God can grant it). Meaning thee passage about love you quoted did not help us as Paul hoped it would help the Corinthians. I say all this because it may seem like we are rejecting the passage about love you quoted.
Anyone commenting further herefrom should please remember that this is where is all began. Including those who might say: okay, no need to pray with each other if it is so. Pray alone or with those who do not mind. _________________ Kervin
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| 2024/2/12 6:41 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | I don't know how many times I have to repeat this without being suspicious of intentions, but:
I DO NOT REFUSE TO PRAY WITH CHARISMATICS OR OTHERS WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH ME OVER TONGUES AND HAVE BEEN DOING SO IN MY LOCALITY.
I do however, draw away from those where I have felt the Holy Spirit lead me. |
| 2024/2/12 6:45 | Profile |
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