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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Sorry…I thought I had listed these scriptures…

Acts 2:4 (KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:11 (KJV)
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 10:46 (KJV)
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Isaiah 28:11 (KJV)
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Mark 16:17 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

 2024/2/9 12:27Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
1 Cor 2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

it says κλητοῖς ἁγίοις which should actually be translated in the adjectival form "the called saints" and not called to be called saints.



That is also my understanding. Spot on. It does not mean someone is about to be called into something. It means these are the ones who we call saints.


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Travis

 2024/2/9 14:40Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

rbanks and Narrowpath:

A person's testimony is powerful. rbanks, I appreciate the testimomy.

There is a truth that a testimony gives a perspective that one without the testimony can miss. I once jumped out of an airplane, so I know what it is like to be in freefall for a full minute. I can try to explain that experience to you, but you will never really know unless you do the same.

There is such a thing as false experiences, but when the experience is consistent with the word of God and produces the fruit of Godliness and sound maturity in the life of a believer, then it is not a false experience.

I also have vivid memory of my salvation. I was 8 years old, and felt like the weight of the world lifted off my heart. I knew that I knew, without any doubt, that the work was done and that I was born again. It set the course for my entire life.

I remember receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at age 18. Once again, it changed my life. The fact that I praised the Lord in tongues, in both word and song was fantastic. But that is not at all the power of the experience. It was the change in my life that was the real power of the experience. I now had a power to live a Godly life that I had lacked before.


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Travis

 2024/2/9 14:48Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

i.e., Private Prayer Language.

Cannot find this concept in scripture at all. It just is not there as many charismatics describe it. I often hear that this is a personal language, given you by God, through which you can pray privately so the devil cannot understand you. Totally a made up concept that holds no Biblical water.

But, praying in tongues, is clear. It is abundantly clear in 1 Cor. 14, described in quite a bit of detail. There is more Biblical teaching and history in the New Testament about speaking in tongues than there is for a large number of other doctrines that we accept.

What about the fact that of the four Biblical accounts of people being baptized in the Holy Spirit recorded in Acts, three of them specifically mention speaking in tongues.
The fourth does not, yet Simon was willing to pay money to have the ability to impart the gift based upon something he saw or heard in connection to it. If nothing apparent happened, he would not have had this desire.


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Travis

 2024/2/9 14:56Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
So I am expected to accept a highly disputed verse about prayer language with no other valid evidence. Oh and experience over something that has divided Christians like nothing else this last 100 years. I'm sorry but that has the mark of Satan.



Brenda:
In the discussion about cessationism, I mentioned that I could pray with and worship with a cessationist, even though I am not a cessationist myself. What a cessationist does and does not believe has been so sadly misrepresented by charismatics that want to castigate cessationists. Some charismatics go so far as to say that cessationism is of the devil because it "denies the power thereof" (Note: This is NOT what this verse is saying by the way.) There is a division in the body on the topic of tongues, miracles, and gifts and the charismatics are saying the cessationists are of the devil because they are not accepting the charismatic view.

I am just wondering how your statement is any different? Are you not looking at the same division with the same opinion, except on the other side of the fence? I am not trying to be critical at all. It is just, I think, a valid question for consideration.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you that there are those out there that are "speaking in tongues" that are really just dealing in fleshly gibberish. I also agree that there are those out there that are speaking in demonic tongues. New Agers are notorious for this. But I also know that there are those out there that don't speak in tongues that are guilty of pride and a lack of love towards others who do. (I am NOT saying this of you, please understand.) There are cessationists who are living in private sin and those who aren't even saved.

So in both of these cases, does the fact that there are those who are false make the true invalid? I think that is why we are to try the spirits to see if they are of God, for many false spirits have gone out into the world.




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Travis

 2024/2/9 15:05Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

I used to travel with a missionary to remote Tarahumara (or "Rarámuri") tribal villages deep in the Sierra Madre Occidental of southern Chihuahua, Mexico. There are tribal communities (mostly on the northern and eastern outskirts of the mountain range) where the indigenous people have some interaction with outsiders.

However, we mostly traveled to extremely remote villages which were often only accessible by 4x4 vehicles (and even horses) over difficult mountain trails. Most of these communities had little or absolutely no interaction with anyone outside of their villages. In one village, my blue eyes became something of an ongoing conversation -- because those residing in that village had ever seen such eye color before.

During those experiences, I became familiar with a people who had little or even no interaction with outsiders (including Mexican). Many people lived in caves and their villages had no modern amenities (including electricity). The people were largely illiterate (i.e., unable to read/write) and almost no one could speak Spanish. In one village, the believers met at a tree to worship and learn from the Lord.

In terms of temperment, the Tarahumara/Rarámuri are very soft-spoken. They aren't given to moments of sensationalism or emotional outburst that is sometimes a hallmark of some churches. Even the Tarahumara language is quite distinctive (and very different from Spanish or English). Most of the indigenous people (who have little or no Mexican influence) are animists. You can see samples featuring elements of their language on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOXvEKtdIXI

With this in mind, I remember that I was very surprised at one of the meetings when I saw some of the believers in one of those villages receive the Holy Spirit and begin speaking in other tongues. These were individuals who did not have radios or televisions. They didn't have access to Spanish-speaking churches or ministers. Yet, here they were, weeping and filled with joy as they spoke in languages that were very different from their own.

I can only communicate in a few words and phrases in their native language. I can communicate rather fluently in Spanish; however, I would subsequently need to have my words translated into Tarahumara. Others would speak in English, wait for their words to be translated into Spanish and, after that, wait for those words to be translated into the indigenous Rarámuri language.

When they spoke with other tongues, it was quite clear that they were speaking in a language other than their own. They clearly were not speaking in any sort of Latin-rooted language (like Spanish) or English. I can speak a bit of German and French too. Whatever they were saying, it wasn't being said in anything that sounded even remotely like those languages.

To be clear: They weren't repeating the same "words" or syllables that are often heard/repeated/recited in many Pentecostal or Charismatic churches or on television, radio or the internet. There weren't any "shundays" or "hondas" as others humorously described earlier in this thread (possibly strange efforts to "make it happen"). After all, those villagers had never seen or heard such things before. One tribal elder who had traveled to one of the villages we visited even commented that he now finally knew that those few villages around his weren't all there was in this world.

On a personal note, I've never seen any evidence for strictly cessationism doctrine in Scripture. The passages that are often used to substantiate such a belief are (in my strong opinion) quite clearly taken out of context. It's not that I don't understand such an argument (or why someone might believe it); rather, it's that I understand what they are claiming but I do not believe that the small assortment of Scripture passages that they quote are correctly interpreted in any sort of cessationist manner.


_________________
Christopher

 2024/2/9 15:22Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

Thank You Chris for sharing this amazing testimony. Isn’t it unreal how we try to help the Holy Spirit out instead of cooperating with Him?


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Mike

 2024/2/9 15:38Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Praise God Brethren, the Word of the Lord will stand forever!

Luke 11:9-13 (KJV) 9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 2024/2/9 15:59Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Isaiah 28:11 (KJV)
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Who was the first one who spoke in tongues?

It was in fact Bileam's ass. Though it could only speak donkeyish, it suddenly could speak words of wisdom in perfect Moabite!

God uses the foolish things for his glory and so it is with tongues, too.

 2024/2/9 17:44Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 312
Tennesse-

 Re:

Dear brethren, I will be a fool for my Christ for a moment. Tongues as a prayer language, let me explain it in retrospect of experience. Oh, Father that your Spirit would guide me rightly as I speak to my brethren, and that I would lift my great High Priest up as I do it! Months after true transformation through Christ precious work I sought all Father wanted to give me through my precious Christ. How precious Christ truly becomes to one who has experienced His healing touch, being changed inwardly, being brought in to new life! One-night dear brethren at work while outside on a break my mouth felt the very presence of God within it, and our Great almighty God's presence around me! When I opened my mouth, with the surprise of my asking being brought forth a bright light issued out from my mouth! My tongue was filled with His presence! I worked third shift back then. I remember going straight to that precious lady's house who had led me to Christ, explaining what had occurred that night! Brethren, let us not be divided in clear teaching. I will leave you with a warning, it seems to be my lot in our Lord's precious body, and then an exhortation. Love you each!

Tongues or a pray language cannot be taught by man! It is a work of all mighty God alone. If it can be taught by man, it is not of God. My prayer language is between me and my God as 1 Corinthians 14 clearly explains, to build me up into greater Christ likeness and allow me to clearly explain my Christs precious Word as He through His Spirit brings it forth through my spirit. I could fill this page with scripture, but friends we already know them. It is a matter of faith or unbelief alone at this point. I will also add, when in the past sadly when I was but luke warm I would never have a desire to use my prayer language, it is only when I am inflamed with my Lord that I have an inward desire from Christ precious Spirit to use it in prayer and in singing.

The clock is ticking, Father is preparing an end time army for an end time harvest to lift up Christ our Great and precious High Priest, I pray you will be a part of it with me my dear friends. The Holy Spirit is becoming more and more intense within me in presence. We must wait underneath the covering of Christ our Lord to survive what is coming. Let us prepare for the spiritual battle approaching us at a very fast pace dear friends.


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Billy Witt

 2024/2/9 18:54Profile





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