Poster | Thread | narrowpath Member

Joined: 2005/1/9 Posts: 1522 Germany NRW
| Re: | | [Also in verse 2 it says 'called' to be saints therefore not yet. Sanctified or set apart and enlightened but not entirely sanctified/baptized into Christ.]
No, this is not true.
I normally use the KJV, but in my previos post I used the NKJV.
I did check the Greek:
1 Cor 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
it says κλητοῖς ἁγίοις which should actually be translated in the adjectival form "the called saints" and not called to be called saints.
1 Cor 1:4-6 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
These are all statements in the indicative form, not conjunctive. It is a statement, not a petition that he utters for them, but a giving of thanks for what they are. There is absolutely no suggestion that they had not attained it.
From this we can conclude that they were a gathering of saints in whom the charismatic gifts abounded, and they were waiting for the revelation of Christ, which means here his second coming. He starts with affirming the good that they had, and then starts to unfold his admonishments and rebukes.
Yes, there were many grievious things he had to deal with: partitions, lack of care, sin, pride, disorder in fellowship, adultery, drunkeness and the like.
Paul saw a troubled church that came out of darkest paganism. It was a port city with prostituion, wealth inequality and idolatry.
I love these 2 letters because Pauls words overflow with praise and thanksgiving, deep grief and throbbing pain, and harsh rebuke for the troublemakers. Though they slighted him and followed the "superapostles" his wounded heart was still full of love for them.
He refuses to take a single penny from them, yet worked day and night to give them an example for work ethics.
In Chapter 12 and 14 Pauls talks about how the gifts should be practised in propper turn and order, but he never forbade or discouraged them.
In the end he wooed most of them back to the Lord.
Yes, the Corinthians were a troubled church but Paul was much harsher towards the Galatians for whom he had no praise. |
| 2024/2/8 16:46 | Profile | rbanks Member

Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | Wow...just something to add to what the fine brothers and sisters of SI have already said...and no argument with me concerning the scriptures! Praise the Lord! He is always Good! Salvation is the greatest blessing from God we could ever receive!
It is so wonderful when we know that we have been saved and have the confidence in knowing, because we have received the witness of His Spirit that has also made us a new creation.
We are saved by Grace through Faith and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.
The scriptures also tell us that if any man thinks he knows anything, he knows nothing yet that he ought to know.
I admit there is a lot I don't know but the experiences that I have received while believing in and praying to God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ has given me such hope that I can't even explain the joy I have experienced on a daily basis.
Whatever experience you have received from God by believing in the full gospel of Christ will give you confidence in your relationship with Him.
If you are truly saved according to the scriptures and know that you are saved because you have received the experience of salvation then you should praise God and also witness for Christ everyday.
Finally, I would like to mention that I received my salvation experience back in September 1983 and I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I was miraculously saved by receiving the Holy Spirit in regeneration. I was born again from above and everybody around me saw a great change in my life, from then on I start walking with the Lord as a new creature growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. I started reading, studying the bible and seeking God day and night.
Now to keep from such a long post, I will fast forward to July 2006. I was praying and seeking the Lord in prayer beside my bed between 11pm and 12am when something happened to me like never before nor since that night. I was praying to God desiring to get close to Him, needing him to bless me with His presence more in my life. I will never forget the words I was saying. I said humbly, Heavenly Father I come to to thee in the only name that I know how to come, in the name of Jesus Christ your son and I come not because I've been a good boy, but on the ground of the blood of Jesus...that was the last thing I remembering saying because something supernatural started happening in me after I said the blood of Jesus.. because the next thing I heard was a loud roar and I thought... Lord I'm going to wake everybody up... then a thought came to me to listen, and I did listen, and I heard myself speaking loudly, rapidly in a language that was unknown to me. Then another thought came to me to look down and I saw my feet and legs moving up and down like hypothetically a thousand miles an hour. Then I saw a vision like an Eye that was so innocent and a Lamb. Then more thoughts like the need of getting back to the altar, the blood and the cross...
Anyway it was the most amazing experience ever! I don't have time to explain the journey I have experienced since that time, but I don't argue with someone who hasn't had the experience because they don't know. We can only know what God reveals to us and what we have experienced.
I still don't know a lot of things but I know that the experience that I have received has got me through some very difficult times in my life. I don't have to convince everyone because people are going to believe what they understand or what they want to believe. I've heard Christian men like John MacArthur and others criticize speaking in tongues because they just don't know, but it is still in the scriptures rather they want to believe it or not.
I am so thankful for what God has done in my life and I still desire for Him to do so much more than I could ever imagine or think...according to the power that works in us.
Blessings and love to Everyone! -rbanks
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| 2024/2/8 18:43 | Profile | narrowpath Member

Joined: 2005/1/9 Posts: 1522 Germany NRW
| Re: | | Wonderful, rbanks, I believe there are many here who have similar experiences and see things like you. You simply cannot argue with a person who has not experienced it. |
| 2024/2/9 1:41 | Profile | murrcolr Member

Joined: 2007/4/25 Posts: 1839 Scotland, UK
| Re: | | Great Testimony rbanks
Quote: I've heard Christian men like John MacArthur and others criticize speaking in tongues because they just don't know, but it is still in the scriptures rather they want to believe it or not.
That's so true! _________________ Colin Murray
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| 2024/2/9 6:25 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | The problem with Bible interpretation of 1 Cor 14 found amongst the brethren here, is that it is not following good hermeneutic principles which are, that any 'cloudy passages' like some of the verses in 1 Cor 14, must be backed up with other parts of scripture.
The only other place where tongues is discussed, is in Acts 2 and there, it clearly speaks of known languages. Added to which we find that even Greek scholars differ so much especially on verbs.
We have seen this in the opening verse in chapter 14. There are obviously two main interpretations and mine is the one held in the most important of the ECF's writings. Of course you can go to them to get out whatever you like, but there were pillars of the church that wore halo's and were known as holy men and they knew nothing about the secret prayer languages that are experienced here.
I am afraid that it does not wash with me that even if everyone here has had the experience of that prayer language, I will not accept it if it is not clear in scripture, backed up by history.
Now the foreign language one has been recorded throughout history. Well I think that it could occur outside of the working of the Holy Spirit. I am leaning more towards the sign gift of judgement. But I am open to consider anything validly presented.
I too had a profound experience of 'salvation' 50 years ago and remember the month date and time of it and felt that I was saved for along time. However, the older I get, the more I don't see the evangelical narrative explained in scripture and especially the verse from 1 Peter that says baptism (not water) saves us - as clear as daylight and only one person has responded to that. Everyone else has dodged it. Of course, it does not fit into their theology.
So I am expected to accept a highly disputed verse about prayer language with no other valid evidence. Oh and experience over something that has divided Christians like nothing else this last 100 years. I'm sorry but that has the mark of Satan. |
| 2024/2/9 7:24 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | narrowpath
//waiting for the revelation of Christ, which means here his second coming//
Yes but not as you know it! This is another part of scripture that has another meaning for some and in particular the early Quakers who had so much right and so much that is found in the early writings.
They said that the second coming is when Christ baptizes in the Spirit and is revealed fully to the man concerned.
Yes the called saints is fine by me. The ones who God already knew would submit to Him fully.
Now then, that comment about the difference between the treatment of Paul towards the Corinthians and Galatians is brilliant! I never though of that before! It is so revealing.
It seems to me that the Corinthians had to be handled with 'kid gloves' and coming from that pit of iniquity they were demonized I am sure and needed a lot of support to hear the truth. It could not be given as to the Galatians- straight on the chin! This is because they could take the truth but the Corinthians needed to be coddled at first. Else I guess they would just walk out. Brilliant point! |
| 2024/2/9 7:33 | Profile | savannah Member

Joined: 2008/10/30 Posts: 2265
| | 2024/2/9 10:21 | Profile | rbanks Member

Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | Brenda has it ever occurred to you that most of your studying has been from men’s teachings instead of the Bible scriptures.
Your interpretations are reading into the scriptures to prove your own understanding. You maybe deceived and not realize it because you seem to have a superior knowledge over others who just take the scriptures as they are along with the experience that the disciples received in the Bible.
Here is just a few scriptures that plainly show that the Holy Spirit gives the utterance to speak in another tongue (language) than the known one a person uses normally. When people say unknown, it does not mean that it is not known by God or someone else somewhere, but it means it was unknown to the one speaking because the Holy Spirit cause the person to speak in a new tongue or in another tongue than the one he/she knew previously. The new tongue is from the Holy Spirit.
The problem you seem to have is that you can’t trust God to do something in your life that goes beyond your understanding. You can only lean to your understanding.
Proverbs 3:5-6 (KJV) 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Everything we receive from God, from salvation, the new birth and everything we receive until we enter into Heaven is a gift from God.
We receive everything from God by grace through faith. We are saved by faith and without faith we can’t even please God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Blessings, rbanks
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| 2024/2/9 11:12 | Profile | brendaM Member

Joined: 2024/1/19 Posts: 304 North Eastern UK
| Re: | | rbanks
//When people say unknown, it does not mean that it is not known by God or someone else somewhere, but it means it was unknown to the one speaking because the Holy Spirit cause the person to speak in a new tongue or in another tongue than the one he/she knew previously. The new tongue is from the Holy Spirit.//
'Unknown' is not in the original text brother, it has been added by the KJV translators. Check it. It just says tongues.
I have had to have more faith than most, due to the pathway of suffering that the Lord has chosen for me. It is only by faith that I am still standing. Long ago I had to lean NOT in my own understanding otherwise I would have lost my faith. Very severe health problems since I was poisoned at 10 months, severely damaged due to neglect, rejection and lack of medical care all of my life. Two abusive marriages. Loss of four children as adults. Brother you do not know the half of it. So don't speak to me of faith.
Or of bible reading - done constantly for 50 years now. I believe in Acts 2 and what God did. I do not see a private prayer language in scripture. |
| 2024/2/9 12:02 | Profile | rbanks Member

Joined: 2008/6/19 Posts: 1330
| Re: | | I'm not talking at this time about a private prayer language.
I never said the exact word "unknown" was in the bible. The scriptures I listed said "new tongue" and "another tongue".
That clearly means that it was not their normal language or tongue. Unknown is only implied from the text because it was not known to them before the Spirit gave the utterance.
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| 2024/2/9 12:12 | Profile |
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