Poster | Thread | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: Yulboum | | Thanks for encouraging me to read the OT, tho I’m not sure why you would assume that I don’t study it presently or have insufficient knowledge of it to understand the context of the NT…. Perhaps you could be more specific as to what you’d hope I’d find ?
In any case, the fact remains that of the first covenant was without fault there would be no need/space for a new one, likewise we have better promises as the 8th chapter of Hebrews plainly states;
A Better Ministry 1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. A New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-34 ) 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. It’s important to note the distinction of the use of the term “house of” and the implications of such. And even here, after the cross, a distinction is made between the houses of Israel and Judah. This is necessary when writing to Hebrews to bring the whole of the old covenant, with all of its facets, into the new covenant
Yet in Christ there is neither distinction, which is why (for me) the apostles had to be Jewish, for Jesus Himself said “salvation is of the Jews”… that was their promise, that unto to them (Jews) a savior would come. That’s why the he bloodline/genealogy is so important in the scriptures,… Jesus had to be Jewish and that bloodline had to be preserved from the first Adam to the last Adam, else how could it be redeemed?
_________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/13 19:47 | Profile | yulboum Member

Joined: 2021/11/14 Posts: 82 Toronto
| Re: | | Hi Fletcher,
I just wanted to say is that OT and NT is the same word of God. I'm glad you read the OT and hope you continue to read both OT and NT
What puzzles me is how we (western church) are quick to depart from our NT faith and return to an OT disposition when two of the 3 Abrahamic faiths are fighting for supremacy in the region all while both flatly denying the savior of the very God they claim to serve/worship🧐
Sorry if I offended you
God bless you
_________________ Yulboum Robert
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| 2023/10/13 19:57 | Profile | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: Caleb | | Good question 🙏🏻
Because it was a preexisting condition of the OT that didn’t get changed by Jesus. What Jesus changed was loving our enemies not hating them, tho that (for me) in no way touches someone breaking into my home and raping my wife and children before killing them, as we just saw in Israel. If I were to arrive upon this situation, I would, without mercy, stop them and if the only way was to take their life then I would… unless the Holy Spirit Himself stopped me.
For me, and I’m only speaking for me, I believe the charter of being the priest of my home includes protecting them just as a shepherd protects the flock from wolves. Having said this, if I were to be in the context of preaching the gospel at a church , in the street, or on the mission field and I was attacked, I would not use deadly force even if my life depended upon it, unless otherwise directed by the Holy Spirit Himself.
So for me, Israel not only has a right but an expectation to defend itself and especially it’s women and children, even with deadly force, but this has to be done in a way that demonstrates clear concern for innocent women and children on the other side of the fence. If this happens and Hamas terrorist are stamped out, we will rejoice with Israel however if they show little regard for the innocent women and children on the other side of the fence then they will lose any moral high ground they might’ve had and they will heap condemnation upon themselves .
_________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/13 20:07 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss Member

Joined: 2003/11/23 Posts: 4779
| Re: | | Hi Fletcher,
Quote:
Which begs the question, where in the NT is there a promise to non-believing Jewish peoples to have control over this land ?
That's certainly a great underlying question, isn't it?
My first response is to point out from New Testament scripture that God has not stopped dealing with the Jews (physical Israel). This is a truly underlying theme found throughout the epistle of Romans (and is so very clear when a person reads it in one sitting from Romans 1 through 16). It's also clear in last-days prophecy that God is dealing with tribal Israel.
When our Lord came and walked upon the earthen sod of Israel, he referred to those places as "Jerusalem," "Judea," "Samaria" and "Israel." This was long after the captivity and the return under Ezra and Nehemiah. In fact, while the people were not in captivity abroad, the people and the land were. Even after returning from Babylon and elsewhere, the people were still subject to secular rule from various empires (e.g., Medes-Persian, Greek, Roman).
In fact, Peter's epistle is written to the "elect exiles of the Dispersion." This seems fairly clear that Peter, as an apostle to the Jews, was written to believers among physical Israel. This is clear in I Peter 2:11-12 ("Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation"). Yet, at the beginning of his epistle, Peter refers to them as elect EXILES. From whence were they "exiled?" It was the LAND of Israel.
Now, we can point out that the recipients of that epistle were believers. However, the promise of the physical land was made to a physical people -- many of which never entered because of unbelief. Yet, the promise remained -- and remains. God said that it would last "forever" (Genesis 13:15). Paul referred to this throughout Romans. For instance, he wrote:
.......
1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,
“That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Romans 3:1-4 (ESV)
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And, later, Paul referred to the state of God's promises to (physical) Israel:
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25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; 27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 FOR THE GIFTS AND THE CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE.
Romans 11:25-29 (ESV)
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Here, Paul is clearly referring to PHYSICAL Israel -- those who are not believers. These are the branches that fell from the vine and not those who have already been grafted back into the vine. Yet, to those, Paul says that (as regards election), they are "beloved for the sake of their forefathers" (to whom the promises were made) and that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
So, the question would be valid: Was the "land of promise" gifted to physical Israel? I would conclude that it was. If this is true, then that gift is irrevocable. _________________ Christopher
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| 2023/10/13 20:22 | Profile | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: Yulboum | | No offense was taken at all, I was just unclear as to why you would write such a thing the way you wrote it… I was simply giving you an opportunity to clarify your point as I didn’t understand it - _________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/13 21:10 | Profile | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: Chris | | Thank you for responding :)
Ok so I have a few questions, and your writings seem to suggest a belief but am not clear on.
When in Romans 11 Paul wires that “all Israel will be saved”… are you saying that you believe that everyone who was born a Jew or in Israel will come to saving faith in Christ ? If not how do they get saved? What about the millions of Jews and Israelis that have died in their sins,… do they somehow get included in your view?
If none of these help you to further provide understanding then perhaps simply answering what you believe “Israel” to be in its totality regarding Romans 11 ?
Thank you 🙏🏻 _________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/13 21:18 | Profile | yulboum Member

Joined: 2021/11/14 Posts: 82 Toronto
| Re: | | Hi Fletcher,
I think Chris mentioned that the Jews will be saved by faith and not because they were born a Jew in a previous post. Cheers,
_____________________________________ Hi everyone,
I believe as well that God Almighty promised Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the Land and God is not slow in keeping His promise. At the moment I hear good news how the Jews are believing in Yeshua as their Messiah. The gospel is spreading rapidly in the Land. Ezekiel 37 God brought back the Jews to the Land in 1948 and Israel was reborn. Also, it is amazing how their language Hebrew was once dead is now alive. This fact increases my faith in Jesus.
There is a dark force that wants to stop the plan of God and does whatever it takes to destroy. Anyway, we must pray for peace in Jerusalem and the rest of the world as well. Pray for the rulers that they will govern with integrity and justice. I don't condone killing or wish harm upon others. It is God that avenges and judges. All I need to do is be still and know God.
Shalom,
_________________ Yulboum Robert
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| 2023/10/13 23:22 | Profile | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: yulboum | | Thank you for responding :)
Could you be more specific because I’m still not understanding, forgive me for being slow if that is the case, when you post, “the Jews will be saved by faith and not because they were born a Jew” quoting Chris’ earlier comment,… which Jews ? All of them ? A portion of them? I’m sincerely hoping to understand what you two are saying, if in fact there is an agreement amongst you as to “who” is or makes up the “all Israel will be saved” in your understanding?
Thank you for your patience 🙏🏻 _________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/14 1:24 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member

Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | |
Quote:
In Christ alone my hope is found
Amen, Markus.
Surely other foundations are being laid here when CHRIST HIMSELF is the only foundation which is laid (1 Cor. 3:11).
_________________ Jade
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| 2023/10/14 9:57 | Profile | yulboum Member

Joined: 2021/11/14 Posts: 82 Toronto
| Re: | | Hi Fletcher,
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27 BSB
Is it this verse you are referring to?
This is a hard one to understand for me too. But I'm sure God will reveal to us.
I believe the apostle Paul is talking about how all the tribes of Israel will be saved.
In the book of Revelation, God shows us how there will be 144,000 that are sealed. 12,000 from each tribes. So all Israel will be saved.
This might help? Peace
_________________ Yulboum Robert
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| 2023/10/14 10:19 | Profile |
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