Poster | Thread | AbideinHim Member

Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| | 2023/10/12 11:39 | Profile | AbideinHim Member

Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | Is the War on Israel the Beginning of the Final War?
Dr. Michael Brown
https://www.youtube.com/live/Xzz_E62iYZg?si=OA_0K90Zu2qjwdsc
Michael Brown is saying the same thing that Lance Lambert said in “The Battle Over Israel.” Satan’s goal is to wipe out the nation of Israel to make the promises of God to Israel and the Church null and void. A simple study of the Word of God concerning the prophetic destiny of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people confirms this. _________________ Mike
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| 2023/10/12 11:39 | Profile | deogloria Member

Joined: 2020/2/12 Posts: 393
| Re: | | Here is an interesting discussion what some (edited) Jews think about Israel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUppu2OHVTY
Here is a bit a historical background of Hamas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7grSsuFSS0
Most Christians and Christian leaders are probably not well informed what's going on in the world Most of all it is now more important then ever to fix our eyes on Jesus and have pure and undivided devotion to Christ. (2 Cor. 11:3 ) |
| 2023/10/12 12:05 | Profile | docs Member

Joined: 2006/9/16 Posts: 2753
| Re: | | What "some" Jews think about Israel might be a better title instead of what "the Jews" think about Israel.
Islam's rapid early spread because of military conquests creating vast historical rivers of blood might be a good subject to discuss.
Just musing. _________________ David Winter
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| 2023/10/12 12:56 | Profile | ccchhhrrriiisss Member

Joined: 2003/11/23 Posts: 4779
| Re: | | Hi ESchaible,
Quote:
Docs,
Have you seen the orders of the Israeli defense minister? They are cutting off all supply, electricity, water, and ordering a complete siege of Gaza, which is over 2 million civilians.
But Israel has bombed many civilians, so much so that hospitals and shelters are unable to keep up with Palestinian civilian casualties and injuries. No one is innocent in this conflict.
Curious if this will come to a full fruition or not, but that is war crime and is genocidal in nature.
That's not really the definition of "genocide." That's merely a RESPONSE of a secular government to a terrorist organization that stores and launches weapons and/or rockets from civilian areas (including hospitals and schools). Their goal is seemingly that, when the secular nation of Israel responds, it will look like they "targeted civilians." Unfortunately, there are those who run with this accusatory narrative.
Genocide is meant to eliminate a race or ethnic group. A response to terror is not "genocide" or even "genocidal" -- even if it results in civilian deaths that it otherwise tries to avoid. Rather, Hamas has within its charter a truly GENOCIDAL call to eliminate Israel -- to the point that they tie practicing or even ethnic Jews around the world to the secular state of Israel.
Apologists for Palestinians state that the true, underlying issue is in regard to the LAND. Though "Palestine" was never an organized nation, the argument is that this is THEIR land. Yet, from a Biblical perspective, this land was PROMISED to the seed of Abraham and his seed.
As believers, we know that we are that "wild olive branch" that was grafted into the vine.
Romans 11:17-24 says this of the Jews:
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17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
Romans 11:17-24 ESV
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So, we are grafted into a vine in which the promise exists. This land is still important. Unless you believe that the Old and New Testament prophecies regarding Jerusalem and the Promised Land is entirely figurative, then it is where the Lord will return to set up His kingdom.
Quote:
Yulboum,
To speak matter of factly, to align with the present state of Israel even to the point of condoning the murder of others is exactly the problem. How do you intend to eliminate the issue of Hamas?
This hypocrisy is the reason I said before that the issue of Israel sifts the church.
I can't speak for Yulboum in regard to his response, but I don't know that many believers are "aligning" with the present secular state of Israel let alone "condoning the murder of others." As stated before, the response of Israel to Hamas is a secular response to a secular attack -- but both are rooted in a religious basis (especially when Hamas is rhetorically motivated by the Islamic religion).
In a way, it is a bit like the Crusades. Secularists will often point to the religious motivations behind the Crusades -- and often point to them as the shining example of "murder" in the name of the Christian (albeit not really Christian but Catholic) religion.
Yet, the Crusades weren't merely a religious response. Rather, they were a secular response to a secular invasion. The "Holy Land" had been under the control of a dominant power since the Diaspora from the Assyrian and, later, Babylonian captivity. The Assyrians gave way to the Babylonians. The Babylonians gave way to the Medes & Persians. The Medes & Persians gave way to the Greeks. The Greeks gave way to the Romans. The Romans gave way to a "Holy Roman" and Byzantine secular/religious rule.
Essentially, the Crusades were a secular response to a secular invasion that was fueled by religious motives. The Muslims conquered the "Holy Land," Egypt, Eurasia, parts of Africa and even parts of Europe (especially Spain, Achaia, Macedonia, etc.). Over the centuries, the battles went back and forth. However, they weren't really a "Christian" attempt to "conquer" anything. They were simply the response of a secular, broken empire (albeit united by its Catholicism) to centuries of militant Islamic conquests.
Israel is a secular nation. Jews still need Christ Jesus in order to be grafted back into a promise that was based upon FAITH. Romans 11 makes this quite clear. That passage isn't "anti-Jewish" but encourages us to pray for Israel (the earthly seed of Abraham) to be re-grafted into this vine of faith. As Paul continues:
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25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; 27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
Romans 11:25-31 ESV
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That said, I agree that there is wisdom about avoiding "matter of factly" proclamations about such matters in which we might be prone to speaking in generalizations regarding either Christians or Jews -- especially if that generalization is about "condoning murder" or throwing to the "wolves."
Quote:
AbideInHim,
The Jews we seek to be a witness to are simply not Jewish enough. And I notice the one thing missing in your post is the one thing that makes them truly Jewish, Jesus their Messiah.
I am at a loss for words at how quickly everything that is Jesus is so easily thrown to the wolves when Israel is concerned.
I'm not sure that the Jews aren't "Jewish enough." Jews who don't believe in our Lord simply haven't been grafted back into the vine because of unbelief.
The last time my wife and I went through the Book of Acts, I noticed something interesting. The apostles in Jerusalem were primarily focused on, well, the Jews.
After all, just before Jesus ascended into Heaven, the disciples asked him a question and Jesus gave his response:
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6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time RESTORE THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL?”
7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Acts 1:6-8 ESV
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They were focused upon a physical kingdom being restored TO Israel (i.e., the Jews). Jesus responded about how it wasn't for them to know the times or seasons that the Father has fixed (i.e., set). So, he redirects them to what it was important to them to know -- namely that they would receive power when the Holy Spirit had come upon them and, then, they would be the Lord's witnesses. Where? "...in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria" (i.e., northern kingdom lands), "and to the end of the earth" (Acts 1:8).
If you read through Acts, Peter didn't have his vision of the sheet from Heaven and his meeting with Cornelius the Centurion until Acts 10-11. This is monumental in the history of the Church -- because Peter and the Jewish believers now realized that God made no distinction (Acts 11:12). After Peter recounted this to the others, they glorified God and said, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18 ESV).
The significance of this is that it took place several YEARS after the death and resurrection of our Lord and the infilling of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2. In fact, most Bible scholars date this to roughly up to EIGHT YEARS after the resurrection of Jesus and that Day of Pentecost. It was after the death of James. It was after the stoning of Stephen. It was after the persecution and "scattering" of the Church (Acts 8:1). It was after the conversion of "Saul" and the beginning of "Paul's" ministry. So, for those years, the Church in Jerusalem didn't focus on Gentiles.
So, essentially, the Church started in Jerusalem, Judea and then Samaria before spreading to the Gentiles -- just as Jesus said they would.
Like I said, Jews must still come to Christ. It isn't enough to simply have descended from Abraham. I think that this is part of the point that Paul was making in Romans that is often lost on many believers. Paul was pointing out that Abraham had another "son" as well as other descendants (such as Esau the son of Isaac). However, Esau -- by unbelief -- had sold his birthright. He was not a part of the seed of Abraham by FAITH.
In fact, this is what Hebrews is pointing out too -- that it is impossible to come to God unless it is by faith. It is not enough to simply be a Jew (for many of Israel never made it into the Promised Land after the Exodus from Egypt). It is not enough to have Abraham as a (physical) father because God could raise of descendants of Abraham from a rock. Rather, it takes faith -- the very thing that set Abraham apart as "chosen" and "elect."
This doesn't mean that the gifts and promises of God to physical Israel are moot. Paul makes this very clear in Romans 11:29 ("For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable"). This was a direct reference of physical Israel (Romans 11:28-32).
So, it is my belief that Paul is saying that God's gifts and calling to physical Israel are still valid. This doesn't mean that they have some sort of free ticket to Heaven or that they remain in the "vine." No, they must still come to faith in Christ Jesus (Romans 11:23-24).
In conclusion, our prayer should be for the salvation of the Jews as well as the salvation of others -- including Hamas. However, that, ultimately, is a spiritual matter of eternal consequence. These current troubles in Israel are a secular issue rooted in religious fervor by Hamas and Muslims and a secular response by a secular government of Israel in a nation comprised mostly of physical Israel (i.e., Jews). Our prayer should still be for the peace of Jerusalem -- and Jesus is that only lasting peace. _________________ Christopher
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| 2023/10/12 13:06 | Profile | yulboum Member

Joined: 2021/11/14 Posts: 82 Toronto
| Re: | | Hi Chris,
Thank you so much for your post, it is an interesting time we are living in. And yes must pray for the salvation of the Jews and also of the Gentiles too. _________________ Yulboum Robert
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| 2023/10/12 20:40 | Profile | AbideinHim Member

Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | Thank you Chris for sharing the truth. There is all the difference in the world between the Hamas terrorists and Israel. I appreciate you using all of the scripture references that you did. _________________ Mike
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| 2023/10/12 20:53 | Profile | AbideinHim Member

Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | Thank you Chris for sharing the truth. There is all the difference in the world between the Hamas terrorists and Israel. I appreciate you using all of the scripture references that you did. _________________ Mike
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| 2023/10/12 21:41 | Profile | JFW Member

Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: | | …and there is a difference between Hamas terrorist 20,000-25,000 and innocent Palestinians 2,000,000 -
It’s important not to conflate Hamas or ISIS with the majority of Arabs who themselves aren’t part of or in support of these groups… again many of whom are our brothers and sisters in Christ ✝️
Israel and its leadership is at a crossroads that will have consequences far beyond its national borders.
Perhaps more important for us, is the 8,000,000+ military aged males who have illegally been implanted in our country awaiting orders to begin their siege- Prepare accordingly 🙏🏻
Edit to add; And not only here but all across Europe in white countries all of which is being planned and financed by a small ethnic group… _________________ Fletcher
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| 2023/10/13 8:58 | Profile | ESchaible Member

Joined: 2023/6/24 Posts: 548
| Re: | | JFW,
You hit the nail squarely on the head. Thank you brother and amen. |
| 2023/10/13 10:32 | Profile |
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