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Caleb

Lysa,

The purposes of God... so vague it doesn't even merit answer honestly. The Lord's prayer adequately covers this in the clause, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

When everyone prayed and fasted for the purposes of God to be accomplished towards Israel, what were you praying and fasting for?

I'm realizing most people don't even know God's purposes for Israel, and perhaps have no clue what they are even praying for. I wonder if this will lead to part of the great apostasy... if it hasn't already.


Docs,
I like that quote. While I myself may not be certain of some minor details here and there, the issue of Israel has been crystal clear to me for many, many years. It has been a thorn in my side and the source of alot of persecution and misunderstanding from the church, but nevertheless, let God be true and and every man a liar.

Also, a right understanding of Israel aligns eschatology in a very easy to understand way, so much so that I have often marvelled at how far off even applauded scholars end up solely based on this one thing. To understand Israel and it's place with God is to rightly understand much of the mysteries of God.

Paul prayed in Ro 10:1

Brothers,[a] my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

He was hated and persecuted by his own kinsmen more than anyone else, but he prayed for them with much longing and consistency. He went to great lengths to organize a love offering for them.

No one knew the mystery of Israel better than him. If he prayed so much for them, we might as well pray for Israel as he did.

"Lord, we long for our brothers to cry out to you in their distress. We mourn with those who mourn. Let them know that there is forgiveness and healing in Yeshua ha Meshiah.
Give them wisdom and restraint how to deal with their enemy.
Work among the Arabs that they will turn to the true God. Protect the hostages, let them encounter miracles that they be rescued. As the world will again turn against them, let them realize that it was you who rescued them time and again. Let the messianic fellowship among them minister their faith to their distressed and enraged fellow kinsmen.
Amen."

Yes I’m thinking the same from what I’ve observed and even here on SI in this thread,… where are the calls to prayer for all our Christian brothers and sisters in the affected region, wether Israel, Syria, Palestine, etc..??

Me thinks sometimes people let their emotions run, not being constrained or even influenced by the Holy Ghost,.. it is as if Israel (on a map) or its inhabitants were the object of worship, else how could a member of the body of Christ call for the wholesale slaughter of innocent life in response to the wholesale slaughter of innocent life and remain a member without public repentance ?
Yet we don’t even find the slightest rebuke against what is an affront to the gospel of Christ!??

Please I implore you who have, to pause and seek the Lords face before casting your lot because its likely you would see it differently if you and your families were being characterized as the “bad guys” facing annihilation. Tho Jesus and His followers knew well what that felt like -

Point is, when Christians are attacked and slaughtered, as they are in the Armenian genocide that’s been taking place, I have not witnessed one thread or call to prayer and fasting tho the scriptures demand it 🤔

We are not Israelites, we are Christians ✝️
Yet we, by and large, seem to value Jewish lives above all else if they are in Israel (on a map) -
Can someone, anyone direct me to the NT passage that suggests this practice much less commands it ?


“because sin will abound, the love of many will grow cold.”

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Fletcher

“Point is, when Christians are attacked and slaughtered, as they are in the Armenian genocide that’s been taking place, I have not witnessed one thread or call to prayer and fasting tho the scriptures demand it “

Brother, A call for Prayer has been mentioned several times on this thread.


URGENT PRAYER ALERT FOR ISRAEL today:

The ICEJ urgently calls on Christians worldwide to pray and intercede for the people of Israel as they face a massive surprise infiltration of Hamas terrorist commandoes from Gaza into southern Israel and waves of rocket barrages on the south and center of the country.


“The ICEJ just took nearly 700 Christians to these same communities for a solidarity visit two days ago, we have been asked to pray for those in the area who are in serious danger. Contacts have informed us this morning that it is a “disaster” in the area, so PLEASE PRAY WITH US IN URGENT Global Prayer for Israel.”

IHOP

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Mike

I don't know about others on the forum but I have always believed that all the Jews who were approved by God were looking forward to a city built by God and not made by human hands. That is the definition of simple saving faith in Hebrews 11. Peter tells the diaspora to hasten the day of the coming of the New Heavens and the New Earth and the appearing of Jesus and to put their hope/confidence COMPLETELY on that grace to be revealed at His appearing.

If physical Israel is in God's will to be restored and Jerusalem is to be a praise in all the earth, God's will be done. I love the Jewish people. I am praying along with them for peace and wisdom, for God to move, to protect and safeguard.

What I struggle with is that the promised land, the Messiah, and the future home of God's people is opaquely described in much of prophesy from the OT. But one theme is clear, the Jewish people regrettably got very confused by OT prophesy and stumbled to their loss over their temporal view of the coming Messiah and His Kingdom and the one that actually came and is coming as they pursued it but not by faith (see Hebrews 11 below).

The tension that I see in much of eschatology over interpretation of end times has much to do with the point of view of God's people looking forward to a reformed earth or a new earth. If all, including OT Jews, had simple faith in a new city, a New Jerusalem, a city waiting to descend from heaven, I think God would not be ashamed to call us His people. It's not my point of view, God said this very clearly and without ambiguity:


Hebrews 11:13-16
New International Version

13 All these people (OT Jews approved by God) were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

As for fasting, Jesus said His people would fast when He departed in a show of mourning for the Bridegroom's soon return. How about a "Maranatha fast" that is recurring until His return. That doesn't in any way preclude a fast for God to intervene in Israel today.

People are suffering now, Jewish people, Christians, innocents. It's going to only get worse for everyone as everything the Lord has foretold in terms of evil being unleashed is accelerated. There is no doubt evil is accelerating, expanding and greatly intensifying as people are given over and consciences seared and deception is pervasive. Jesus and the Apostles said pray constantly that we might stand in the evil day and not be deceived , not fall away and not be distracted. God's people, generally, need a lot of Gethsemane prayer right now and fasting with prayer and loud cries as Jesus prayed for protection from the evil one and the strength to overcome are essential to God's people surviving what is soon and very soon.

I'm sure many stopped reading this post long ago, but I'm praying that our eyes would be stayed on Jesus, that we would be looking forward to the joy set before us and endure suffering with love and joy full of glory to God. We need a lot of Spirit and focus to do that. It's going to be an extreme testing of faith now in the heavenly promise of a new city and true home.

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Robert

AbideInHim,

I think the point we are trying to make is that these calls to prayer and fasting are misguided and vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Obviously we are to pray for those who are subjected to these types of violence, but the situation we are watching unfold is of prophetic significance and needs to be approached with this mindset.

To pray into this situation as an intercessor is not to pray more fervently than normal, or to fast. An intercessor is one who identifies with the object of their praying, to the point where they would wish themselves accursed from Christ for the answer to their prayers. An intercessor is one who himself will take the load, and sacrifice literally anything and everything in identification with their object of prayer, and will not relent in this cross bearing and dying until the prayer is answered. THIS is intercession, not fervency or tears, fasting or public calls to piety.

We have so lost what it means to intercede that we can honestly say their are millions of intercessors in the world and there is no move of God... the Father, through one intercessor, His Son, changed the course of eternity. We are to walk as Jesus walked, who on the cross patterned intercession for us, and bade us, take up your cross and follow me.

Vague prayer and sentimental emotion will avail nothing, because these things are not intercession. When Israel sees a true intercessor church, we will see that church speak the words of resurrection and the dry bones will live.

Just like the church needs a deep death in order to see true resurrection power in the spirit, scripture clearly states that Israel will see this same death and destruction in order to for the final glory of Jacob to be shown forth from a true and heavenly kingdom, ushered in when the king of king sets every knee to earth in obesiance.

This present state of Israel and it's fleshly defenses and humanistic agendas is what will be judged and ultimately flattened by a loving God. The purpose of God for Israel is that we, the church, manifest a type and quality of living and witness that is able to provoke them to jealousy by demonstrating the living God to them, in the resurrection power of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

The church, we, must realize that there is none sufficient for these things, except the living God.

God pleads with you to come to the cross and die to religious and soulish tropes and cliches and see the reality of the situation as He sees it, not as some news agency reports it or some humanistic and manipulative, sentimentally driven Christianity holds it up as just another way to bring a coin to the coffer, or an eye to their fleshly influence. You're good is in fact the enemy to God's eternal purpose in this situation, because the only answer for an end times Jew is a church walking in authentic, resurrected glory of the indwelling Jesus... and transversely that is the only hope for any revival.

Would that this could come any other way than judgment, but plain scripture, and everything the Lord has spoken to me says otherwise. We are to come along side the Jew in resurrection power as redemptive judgment falls and the world is thrust into the final upheaval that will leave nothing unsifted, usher in the Jewish people to repentance and salvation, the church into final glory, and the true ruler of Israel to His throne on earth.

This current regime will be toppled first by Islam (as this is the ancient struggle), then the world system, and finally Jesus Himself as he reigns for all eternity from that holy hill.

I hate to say it, but these are the words of the Lord for this generation, take them or leave them, posted on a forum that can't even seem to find unity in Jesus Christ, the living and true God, let alone a word like this one.

Would that we could all see past flesh and self and bow the knee to the glorified and living God, if we don't do it now, we will all stand before Him and answer for the reason why.

yes but the point I was hoping to hi-light by the statement you responded to was not in reference to Israel directly, but only in contrast to the lack of prayer/concern about the ongoing Arminian genocide, where mostly Christians are being slaughtered, yet no one seemed to care but for Israel (on a map) there is this bluster of fevered activity.
Are we not Christians? Does the word not say that we are to pray for the persecuted Christians as tho we were ourselves suffering?
Then does it say anywhere in the NT, that we are make special place for Israel (on a map) above the concern of our own body ??

Mike did you even know about the Armenian genocide taking place….
now ask yourself why hasn’t that been all over the media 🤔

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Fletcher

“Mike did you even know about the Armenian genocide taking place….
now ask yourself why hasn’t that been all over the media 🤔”

Brother, I not even know about it, but I posted on it right here on SermonIndex, but I do agree with you that there is much persecution going on in the world that intercessors need to pray about that we’re not even aware of.

Check out the post on 9/29 (News and Current Events)

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Mike

One thing that is glaring in this situation, and proves the sentimentality of those who blindly support the Israeli state, is that they are heralding a Palestinian genocide as we speak. Blindly supporting the current fleshly nation of Israel is to support this genocidal tendency of human strength and self sufficiency.

They are God's covenanted people, and will be judged as such, in order to redeem them and bring them to salvation in Jesus. The persecution of the Jew and their slaughter will be self inflicted, and this is the judgment of God. They trust in military strength and the decimation of their enemies, and in that trust are committing war crimes and genocide, and this will be turned on them in judgment.

They are not innocent little Jewish people needing our sentimental praying, they are now war criminals provoking a world system and giving it an open season on them to rid the world of their presence. They need a church that can see past this and be real and authentic, speaking words of life from the life of Christ within, and are willing to stand within the same violent opposition they face and be Christ to them regardless of the outcome. They need true intercessors, not cliches and soulish charismatica.

Please read my previous post, as that is the perspective of God into this situation.