Hi TMK,
Could you expand on ur qoute I might learn something?

That being said, I disagree with Staff’s application but his argument is sound.

Also Jesus delibrately gave two examples and both were "until the day"
Jesus said that the moment Lot was out of harm's way and the moment Noah was out of harm's way then and only then could Judgement happen.

As a side note or foot note both Lot and Noah went up out of their place,Lot went out of the valley and Noah rose up with the Ark,
urs staff

Hey staff- I believe Jesus in context was talking about the coming destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans about 40 years later. But I don’t have any desire to argue about that.

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Todd

Hi Lysa,
Zac Poonen says that Christians in persecuted countries like Corrie Ten Boom dont believe in pretrib not because the bible says pre trib is wrong but because they are experiencing persecution.
This is experential doctrine and is faulty exegesis.He is not relying on the bible but on experience.

We are allowed to come to conclusions but only based on scripture.
My point is it took him 3 mins to introduce scripture as a reason and based his whole sermon on experience and his reputation.
As for the secret rapture :It is Zac who mentions the secret rapture as evidence of how stupid the pre trib is but in reality the idea of a secret rapture is only based on a dodgy reading of one verse.
Put another way the rapture is not secret and Zac should know this was a red herring arguement.

After listening to Zac Poonen I personally would be very careful listening to him about any subject in the future,
urs staff

Hi TMK,
Cool, you are saying rightly or wrongly that it happened already,
urs staff

I don’t think any rapture or 2nd coming happened yet but I think the tribulation Jesus speaks of in the OD is the horrors of the siege and slaughter and destruction of Jerusalem. There are plenty of online resources to read just how terrible it was.

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Todd

Hi,

I want to encourage everyone that if you face persecution for Jesus, rejoice and be glad. Let us be thankful because We are following Jesus Christ who suffered for us. In our present day, we see in the media how much they are against Christ Jesus and against Christians. But let's be strong in the faith and pray for each other and encourage each other.
Let's share with one another how God has been good to us.
We will see Jesus coming soon.

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Yulboum Robert

Just can’t go any further without acknowledging your complete and utter commitment to your beliefs 🙏🏻
I mean you are ten toes down and the temperance and verve wherewith you field the incessant testing is quite refreshing:))
While I may not see it as you do, your patient treatment of those of us who see it differently is a thing we can all learn from-
What’s more, your unshakable vision of what you believe requires me to revisit this topic and reconsider my own views.
I can honestly say your presentation is without doubt formidable and wether ultimately correct or not, blesses my spirit and even comforts me.
Not gonna say that I’d have a problem with it if you turn out to be spot on ;)

Very recently, while looking into the matter (because of this thread) I came across something that I’d never heard before and wanted to run it past you …

A particular view was presented that suggested we could in fact be reading a key point wrongly, where when the scriptures say ; “2 will be working in the field and one is taken and one is left, 2 will be on the rooftop and one is taken and one is left” (paraphrased) that the ones left (not taken) are the better as they are the “meek that inherit the earth” …🤔

Admittedly I’m not nearly as informed on this subject as you, but this was a monkey wrench of sorts as it turned my entire perspective on its head-
Is this something you’ve encountered before and/or how do you address this perspective?

Thanks again for your input 😇

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Fletcher

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Lisa

Hi Lisa,
I understand and appreciate your point of view and posts.
We will see each other with Christ where we will be busy enjoying worshipping him with a clear understanding of all scripture,urs staff

Hi Yelboum,
While not what we go out to look for,being glad and rejoicing in persecution is what we all hope to aspire too and achieve.
The media are a "false prophet"and are controlled by the "prince of the power of the air" and are against all that is good.Looking forward to Jesus coming whenever it is where we rise to be with him forever.What a thought....
urs staff