Hi Staff,

I don't know.

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Yulboum Robert

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Lisa

Hi Lisa,
I do say that their will be persecution and tribulation but I dont replace the good news gospel which we are meant to spread with "the gospel of persecution".The gospel of persecution is a replacement gospel.Jesus said we would be persecuted for his sake but he never said go around preaching that we would be persecuted for his sake.The love is telling the way it is just like Paul did,
urs staff

Staff, I have enjoyed dialoguing with you over the years but you are seeing this topic way lop-sided. Greg just posted "ONE", 1, topic that Zac Poonen preaches on, he isn't just preach a post trib resurrection. Have you EVER bothered to listen to any of them? How about one of them? This is a "you" problem, not a persecution problem.

1. Here is a list of sermons from Zac on his website for FREE:

Detached from the Love of Possessions
Speaker Zac Poonen
Series Understanding the New Covenant

UNDERSTANDING THE NEW COVENANT Part 7: Detached from the love of possessions
Speaker Zac Poonen
Series UNDERSTANDING THE NEW COVENANT

10th September 2023 - CFC Bangalore (Home Speaker) - Sunday Church Service
Speaker [""]
Series

Give No Room To The Devil
Speaker Zac Poonen

UNDERSTANDING THE NEW COVENANT Part 6: Bearing The Dying oF Jesus Constantly

2. And here are his the studies you can download for FREE:

THE GLORY OF THE NEW COVENANT

Basic Christian Teachings
72 messages of 15 min each starting from ground-zero. This series of audio messages by Zac Poonen is on foundational Christian truths. Each message is in the MP3 format.

Fundamental Biblical Truths
This is a series of 28 studies of 25 minutes each, that will enable you to have a good foundational knowledge of the basic truths of God’s Word. You can use this for home Bible-study groups.

Through The Bible
70 one-hour expositions that bring out the distinctive message of each book of the Bible. Through The Bible will help you to understand scripture in a deeper way! Each message is also available as DVD and Audio CDs.

Verse By Verse
An intensely practical verse-by-verse study, produced over a period of thirty years, on selected Old and New Testament books. If you are looking for a systematic or in depth study on a book, here is the tool to help you. Each message is in the MP3 format.


Staff, you find fault with everyone who disagrees with you, let me ask you... what exactly are you doing for the Kingdom of God?

Where are your free thousands of sermons, where are your free thousands of teachings?

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Lisa

Hi Lysa,
This is not a "you" problem as you see it ,this is a gospel problem.No where did Jesus say go ye into all the world and preach an unbalanced persecution gospel.Simple as.Im not disagreeing with anyone personally just this unbalance.
He did teach how to deal with these things
Ive said over and over that I think the persecution gospel is a cul de sac and goes hand in hand with "you can lose your salvation" gospel
I could say the exact same about you ie you find fault in anyone that disagrees with you ,saying that is just away of getting around the valid points that are being made.
Where are your free sermons etc?
urs staff

Hi Lysa,
Im not saying Zac is not earnest in his beliefs or heretical or not a good person but....
I challenge you to listen to the first 2/3 minutes of this Zac Poonen video on the Tribulation and almost everything he says is hearsay or experential

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbeUHdqBoWE

1 Evangelical Christians differ on this issue =correct
This is true
2 Jesus Christ comes secretly = incorrect
Zac introduces "secretly" himself as a debating point.
The pretribulation rapture is not secret.
Zac clearly doesnt understand the end times
3 He bases his theology of the end on "experential doctrine"not the bible.
The first reason he says that the rapture is not pre trib is because they dont believe it in countries that are experiencing persecution.He then gives the tried and tested Corrie Ten Boon doesnt believe it.He does not qoute scripture at the start as his base arguement but experience
4
I found out that the teaching of a pre trib rapture was introduce 150years ago he says.Again not relying on scripture for an arguement but on hearsay.Even if it were true it does not make it incorrect.It has to be argued by scripture not history.
5
He searched the scriptures and he could not find one verse
Zac is relying on his reputation to convince his audience rather than scripture ."I studied if for 50 years"


These false arguements have been echoed over and over again on SI.

Firstly the rapture being secret is based on a mis understanding of "twinkling of an eye" passage
Secondly the debate has to have a foundation of scripture not experience
Thirdly their is clearly a passage in the new testament showing that Christ comes before the Tribulation and after the Tribulation "as it were in the days of Noah" and "As it were in the days of lot"
Fourthly
Zac clearly doesnt understand prophetic pattern
Just listen to 3 mins,
urs staff

///Where are your free sermons etc?
urs staff ///

email me your email and I'll send you my free sermons.

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Lisa

Hi Lysa,
What about the 3 minute challenge?If so can you comment on my points please?
urs staff

"But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days." (Daniel 12:13)

Daniel's personal resurrection will come at the end of this present evil age - at the end of the days - at the time of the end. It seems safe to assume that all other Old Testament saints, prophets etc. will rise in this resurrection.

Paul said we will all be changed and glorified at the last trumpet - "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (Daniel included) will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (I Cor 15:52)

Assuming Daniel will experience his personal resurrection at the end of the age as promised, along with all other saints, if the pre-trib view is legitimate, then Daniel would have to be raised and changed 7 or 3 & 1/2 years before the end of the age. As seen, the plain uncomplicated reading of Scripture lays this notion to rest. How can saints be raised and glorified at a last pre-trib trumpet only to be followed at the end of the days by another trumpet? If a pre-trib rapture trumpet sounds, then how can it legitimately be called the last trumpet at which all Old and New Testament saints are changed if another trumpet is yet to sound at the end of the age another 7 or 3 & 1/2 years later? How many "last" trumpets can there be? If Daniel is to be resurrected at the end of the days and Paul's last trumpet signaling the resurrection occurs at the end of the age (as with Daniel), then the pre-trib notion is laid to rest by Scripture itself. It's exegetically impossible for saints to be raised and glorified at a supposed pre-trib last trumpet to be followed years later by another last trumpet and resurrection.

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David Winter

Hi Docs
I see you decided to participate with scripture rather than just vague posts like below.Lysa didnt complain too you about that though.....double standards

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. (Rev 13:6-7)

urs staff