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ESchaible
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Joined: 2023/6/24
Posts: 548


 A Statement to those seeking Revival

I posted this earlier and was immediately rebuked for posting it as a question, rather than a statement. So here is my revision. I am bleary eyed and using a new computer, so forgive any typos and add for yourself any missed punctuation.

This is merely scratching the surface of the depths of this topic and the heart of God for this generation. I have yet to fully flesh this out, and in the coming weeks hope to more fully understand as well, because without this understanding nothing else matters and we must prepare to be devastated and marginalized by those who seek to convince us we are in fact the ones marginalizing and destroying our society.

A Statement to those seeking Revival

It is intrinsic in prophetic ministry to see past the glaringly obvious and into the realm of mystery and hiddenness. The nature of the office requires a death so great and all consuming that no self exists any longer to seek the approval and applause of men. The death that is so all consuming that the only inevitability, the only thing that can once again bring life is the power of resurrection. This resurrection is the life through Christ, in the presence of the Father through the workings and power of the Holy Spirit. This, and only this, is the key to unlocking not only the mysteries of God, but also the life that all those who profess His name are called. The life free from the principalities and powers of the air.

We are living in the best of times, and the worst of times. A time of untold wealth and technological advancement. A time when both Church and world depend more fully than ever on these technologies. All it would take for the world to cease to a grinding halt is a literal clip of a wire. We are fools to think that the only influence broadcasted to the masses through this avenue is human.

Revival is a noble pursuit, but a futile one. Here is where I lose you, but I beg you read on.

The cosmic struggle thrust upon us by internet politicians and influencers, LGBT agendas and other debauched manifestations of something far greater and more cosmic than most realize, is much more far reaching and grandiose than the mere pursuit of revival. In fact, the failure to intuit and gain a deep knowing of this one thing is the hindrance to God rending the heavens, as the heavens must first be demonstrated to that we are in fact the church who can demonstrate the manifold wisdoms of God.

What am I saying, and do you have ears to hear?

There is a cosmic struggle, a mystery that has been hidden in God and must as a precursor to not only revival, but evangelism, be waged and not won (as Jesus will culminate the victory), but DEMONSTRATED to the ruling powers that force their hands into the very culture and society we live in today.

The leftist agenda; the LGBTQ2S+ movement that has swept the world, is the strongest manifestation of these powers since perhaps the Nazi party decimated 6 million Jews.

What sensationalism is this you ask? I ask you to see past the mere human manifestations and look deeper, higher, look up instead of across.

The powers Paul talks to us about are spiritual, ruling powers that exert influence over localities, nations, continents, and in this case, planets. They are organized, nefarious and even today go wholly unnoticed by the Church at large. The tragedy here is that the Church is the conduit through which the power of Christs victory over these powers is to be demonstrated. But how can we wrestle what we do not understand, do not see, or in our modern age, ignore as we ourselves have become consumed and overtaken by their sway?

How do these powers exert their influence?

Fear.
Manipulation.
Threat.
Greed.
Egocentricity.

Look around dear saints at this blatant manifestation of all of these things and ask yourself; Are we a church that is demonstrating the wisdom of God, not to the world, but to the principalities and powers?

Do we employ manipulative tactics in our dealing with each other and the world? Think sales, marketing, self promotion, seeking the applause and adoration of men? Emotional ploys in our worship music and altar calls?

Do we employ fear, threats?

These things are the things that matter. The things Jesus in his resurrection power has covenanted to set us free from so that we may walk in rest and peace. This rest and peace that can only be found in the abiding and ever present God is the only power through which we can be free from these powers and their influence. God is nearer to use than the warmth of the sun upon our faces as we walk in its light, we must only acknowledge this and turn our thoughts to Him - He is ALREADY there.

The world systems that many well meaning believers think themselves bound to are merely tools. The internet is not evil, but it allows influencers and big personalities being used, it allows the gods of this world to exert the destructive influences mentioned above and in the end, destroy everything we hope for.

Revival...

This concept is elusive to most Christians in the United States and is often mistaken for mercy drops, or more often than not, emotionally charged meetings being used by the very powers we seek to drive back.

What must we do?

Pursue fellowship in the most authentic way we can - laying bare our very souls, our lives, our failure, our struggles, our victories, our everything to one another in a way that is so foreign to the world it cries, "Crucify him". The violence of the crucifixion juxtaposes itself with the humility of the cross we bear with Christ so profoundly that it demonstrates the wisdom of God second to only humiliating and wrestling prayer (which also bears forth from this fellowship).

Abide in the one sided covenant of God the covenant keeper knowing that nothing we can possibly do will ever save ours, or the souls of those around us. Pride must be met with the Christ life within us and the ever present God. Violence met with peace. Manipulation met with exhortation and accountability to the saints and God. Fear met with eyes raised to the resurrected Christ, as He is and will be ultimately victorious over the powers that now control our nation (USA) and will soon, manifest in more than cultural movements, but blatant and outright persecution. If and when we face it, we must demonstrate again to those same powers a fearlessness even in death, knowing that the end of our mortal shells are meaningless and we shall live on in glorious resurrection as our Lord does.

This movement must serve as an alarm bell for us saints. It is only the beginning of something much worse and if we fail to demonstrate the wisdom of God to the governing and ruling spiritual authorities of the world system, we face a violent persecution that we now only see in its initial birth pangs, but will one day soon take the lives of any who oppose this inclusivity. The world idolizes this coexistence, but it is a mask, a clever ruse that is in no way innocent or "good".

We are to be the ultimate demonstrators, protesters as it were, that Christ can set us free from the depths of these influences.

Freedom from sin and this preoccupation is a pedestrian view of the freedom and life God has in store for the church that will seek Him where He can be found, inside each and every believer.

He is already here, waiting for us to simply acknowledge His presence. I vomit the term 'manifest presence of God' back at this present age as the God of the Bible is in fact omnipresent, or nowhere at all.

Stop seeking Him, for He is already in you - turn your thoughts to Him and walk free and the heavens shall be first cleared of this worlds powers, and than revival shall come in all of Gods glory.


A synopsis of Berkhofs view of this concept:

First, it is important to recognize that the Powers were created by God as part of the “good” Creation. They are instruments to bring order to the Creation and they find their purpose in Christ, who is their Head. However, the Powers are broken due to sin. This legion of Powers now often works in ways that are not reflective of God’s character and nature. They are coercive and their way always leads to death. On the surface, they promise well-being and stability. In some sense, they deliver on that promise, but always at the cost of our very lives. It is both a material and spiritual problem. We are enslaved to the system.

The work of Christ in his crucifixion and resurrection breaks the dominion of the Powers. Christ’s crucifixion actually unmasks the Powers for what they truly are. The resurrection is the sign of Christ’s reign and the Powers “dethronement.” The Church is also a sign that the Powers no longer rule. The Body of reconciled believers that contains both Jews and Gentiles, demonstrates Christ’s reign once again over Creation. The Church is called to stand firm against the Powers, not defeat them… that is Christ’s role. Rather, the Church unmasks the Powers by living out Christlikeness. The Powers are further destabilized by preaching and teaching Christ, which opens our eyes to the true reality of our broken world.

The Powers can never really come back to autonomous authority. But, we live in the “now and not yet” which means that the Powers still vie for dominion. They do so in three ways: secularism, legalism, and “restoration.” Berkhof suggests that the Church is largely responsible for these trends and offers the only worthwhile response to the de-stabilization of the Powers: following and embodying Christ. In other words, we recognize that the Powers are still at work, but we maintain their proper role, which is subordinate to Christ. We recognize that the “authorities” are broken people needing to be reconciled to Christ. We do not follow “ideology” but continue to pray that Christ would be made manifest through the Powers’ work.

Berkhof states it succinctly, “It can happen that Christ’s church, by her preaching, her presence, and the patterns of life obtaining within her fellowship, may represent such a mighty witness and so forcefully address the consciences of men far beyond her borders, that they generally orient themselves by this reality, tacitly accepting it as a landmark. They do so because they know of no better gaurantor of a decent life, of mercy, freedom, justice, and humanity than a certain general acknowledgment of the sovereignty of Christ, or (as they prefer to say it) of ‘Christianity’ and ‘Christian values'”

 2023/6/24 21:43Profile
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 Re: A Statement to those seeking Revival

Brother,

Thank you for your thoughts.

This short clip might resonate:

Jesus Is The Revival by Michael Koulianos #shorts
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9ZQm8BtRkTo


The modern sense of Revival is more of a word constructed in the great awakening periods. Intimacy and knowing Jesus the son of God is timeless. If that is what revival is to someone then get as much "revival" as you can.

I do believe the word is valid and important and does have biblical roots though the modern usage has become much more wider in its usage.

Matthew 25 to me is where the rubber hits the road past theologies and words, are we "wise" or "foolish" virgins. The challenge is succinct and strong for Christians of all ages.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2023/6/25 11:36Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
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 Re:

I posted about a revival taking place in Georgia. The pastor of the church where the revival is taking place got baptized in the Holy Spirit, and is seeing many supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit. He made this statement “that his quest is to help pastors host the presence of God.”


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Mike

 2023/8/17 11:45Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
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 Re: A Statement to those seeking Revival

True biblical and historical revival doesn't come through perfect conduct and through absolutely mature vessels demonstrating Christ-likeness.
It comes from a hunger and a thirst that is placed in the believer by God himself and is demonstrated through the spirit of prayer and intercession when the spirit prays through the believer with groans that cannot be uttered.

It is actually the workings of an unclean spirit that causes believers to think revival is either unattainable or not needed to bring about the conversion of the masses.

It's the Spirit of revival when he awakens and pours out his spirit of power and Glory as he is doing in the world today and will continue to do, that will bring Unity and produce maturity.

The horse never does well behind the cart.

The great question is how to maintain revival, how to maintain this glory and light when it comes upon his people and to allow that light to be the light of the world to penetrate into the system of darkness.

A faulty understanding of eschatology will never allow the spirit to flow into the modern world and penetrate and break the yolk of the different principalities and powers and the demonic henchman.

Because this takes faith on a corporate level to activate the spirit of prayer and supplication and to have the resulting vision manifest itself through the prayers of the Saints.

The left-behind movies and the eschatology that was promoted by Darby and propagated through the Scofield Bible have become and are the problem. Our great forefathers Jonathan Edwards and John Wesley and men like Charles Finney had faith in Gods power to transform society and without that, we quench the Holy spirits work because we do not believe it is possible we have more faith in what Satan is doing on the earth and what he is capable of them what God is capable of.


When we doubt gods power to penetrate into the political system and into the mainstream media and into the educational systems through revival reformation and awakening we quench the spirit.

And the only thing that can break off the bondage of bad eschatology and a pessimistic end-time worldview is the spirit of revival. That is what God did through men like Jonathan Edwards and others and that is what he will do again.

 2023/8/18 0:00Profile
ESchaible
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Joined: 2023/6/24
Posts: 548


 Re:

In the light of current events, I felt to bump this thread as the the entire purpose of the word I was given as my original post was to provoke Israel to jealousy, and in preparation for Jacobs trouble.


 2023/10/7 14:43Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I have been thinking about how I would respond to this thread. First, I think it is important say that I am a pentecostal and a continuationist. I believe strongly in the active and powerful ministry of the Holy Spirit through the life of a believer. I am not, however, a charismatic. I think that much of the current charismatic movement, including the Word of Faith movement and the New Apostolic Reformation groups are off in the weeds to the point that much of what they preach and teach cannot even be called Biblical Christianity anymore. It is laced with New Thought philosophy and, more often than not, pulls scripture far out of context to make it’s point.

That being said, I would like to address some of what Louis Berkof believed. Here are some excerpts from his writings.

“ 1. Since society cannot be renewed without individual renewal, the church must promote a healthy spiritual life for all her members. That is the indispensable first step. Fail here and there is nothing the church has to give to the world. The salt must not lose its savour.

2. The pulpit must proclaim the social message of Scripture and seek the realization of the kingdom of God on earth, thus avoiding both the danger of exclusive other-worldliness and the danger of simply becoming a platform for sociology. The cross and kingdom are not alternatives, for the kingdom is to be founded on the cross.

6. The church should encourage its members to promote independent Christian organizations that advance the kingdom of God in the various areas of life – social, economic, political. In such ways, Berkhof suggested, Christians will become ‘the leaven permeating the lump, God’s spiritual force for the regeneration of the world, his chosen agents to influence every sphere of life, to bring science and art, commerce and industry in subjection to God.’ So we have that Kuyperian separatist note calling for Christians to organize on a distinctively Christian basis.”

Contained in these writings are many of the same foundational beliefs of the current New Apostolic Reformation groups. We could easily pull the seven mountain mandate out of Berkhof’s point number 6.

From what I have read, Berkhof was very much about a social reformation through the gospel. It could be thought of as sort of a proto-dominionism in my opinion. The idea is that the kingdom of God will come as the church transforms its culture.

I would ask a few questions that could help the discussion perhaps.

First, can we find anywhere in scripture where it is clearly taught, in context, that the church is going to rise up as the kingdom and affect social change in the world to the degree that the nations will turn to Christianity as a result? Berkhof insinuated that this is the case. But is it found anywhere in scripture?

Second, can we find any place where scripture teaches, in context, that there will be any kind of a great end-time revival and harvest of souls? Or does scripture teach the opposite? Or is scripture silent on this issue entirely?

Third, what pattern do we see in scripture in the early church? What did the apostles teach us should and would happen? Where was their focus and on what did they teach us to focus.

I am certainly not against revival. My desire is, as should be the desire of every believer, that the whole world would be saved. I would love to see every nation on Earth be a Christian nation. But my desire does not mean that this is what God said would happen. I believe we must sincerely seek out what the Bible tells us and conform our beliefs to scripture.

I would love to see some scripture either way as to the questions I asked. Maybe I am missing something another has found.

Travis


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Travis

 2023/11/2 15:32Profile
ESchaible
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Joined: 2023/6/24
Posts: 548


 Re:

I don't promote or even read for that matter anything of Berkhof beside his little book "Christ and the powers", so I am not qualified to respond. My purpose in the original post was obedience.

Berkhofs view of the ruling spiritual principalities and powers of the air is spot on and a much needed, and neglected teaching today.

Apart from this Berkhof is a mystery to me.


 2023/11/2 16:02Profile
twayneb
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Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Out of curiosity, what scripture does Berkhof use to teach that we as believers are to rule spiritual principalities and powers of the air?


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Travis

 2023/11/2 16:09Profile
ESchaible
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Joined: 2023/6/24
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 Re:

He doesn't teach that, you misread me. The ruling spiritual powers, meaning the spiritual powers that hold sway over the world.

The Lord led me to write and post that in preparation for what we now are witnessing in Israel, as we will, sooner than later have to demonstrate to the powers our freedom in Christ by practically and spiritually bearing the cross and being Christ to Jews fleeing worldwide persecution. The crisis in the middle east will soon arrive on our doorsteps in the form of Jews needing our help to stay alive.

 2023/11/2 18:02Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

//The crisis in the middle east will soon arrive on our doorsteps in the form of Jews needing our help to stay alive. //

This seems like a very bold statement. What exactly do you mean? That in the USA Jews will be fleeing for their lives en masse? If so from who?


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Todd

 2023/11/2 18:26Profile





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