Hi brother Mike,
I agree with you, this would be completely disastrous for the church, people with gifts/signs but no fruit.
I wonder what a catastrophe it would be if Simon Magus had access to the gifts the apostles had in Acts 8:9-24.

We can never forget what our Lord said to us:
Matthew 24:24
"For There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shell great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect"

When God asked Moses to turn the staff into a serpent, the wise men and sorcerers were able to do that too (Exodus 7:8-12)

So we are not deceived when we see great signs and wonders. What really matters are the fruits in life.
Matthew 7:15-16
"15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

_________________
Filipe Costa

Filipe,
You wrote “ Regarding the Fruit, Peter did not bear any fruit to the lame, only an external healing. When a person receives an external healing, he is not internally healed.
Many were healed by Jesus, but they did not follow Him or recognize Him as the Savior.
Many were healed by Jesus, but they did not follow Him or recognize Him as the Savior.”

How do you see, “in the name of Jesus Christ” functioning as relating to the use of the gifts and/or authority?

_________________
Fletcher

Felipe wrote:
//Many were healed by Jesus, but they did not follow Him or recognize Him as the Savior//

Then why did He heal them?

_________________
Todd

Luke 4:17

"And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.”

2Kings 5:1

"Now, Naaman, commander of the army of the king of Syria, was a great and honorable man in the eyes of his master, because by him the LORD had given victory to Syria. He was also a mighty man of valor, but a leper."

2 Kings 5:12-15

"Are not the Abanah and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage. And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. And he returned to the man of God, he and all his aides, and came and stood before him; and he said, “Indeed, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, except in Israel;"

Naaman was a Syrian, but as written in the bible, he was someone who had been greatly favored by God. He was an example of one who had shown trust in the God of Israel better than God's own people.

Matt 9:1-7

"Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed... He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”

And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!”

But Jesus...“Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’?..."

To command and actually make a paralytic walk is simply out of this world phenomenon and incomparably different from just saying words of forgiveness. It is an awesome proof of divinity of the Lord Jesus.

Christian character I guess, can also be pretended or contrived, and many among the followers of christian churches exhibits more uncharitable behavior than unbelievers.

We can see in the Gospel of John 20:30-31 that the purpose of Jesus' healings was for people to believe

"30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; God and that believing ye might have life through his name"

However, we can observe other points about the signs Jesus did:

- Compassion - Matthew 14:14
"And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick"

- Making an analogy:
In John 6:1-14 Jesus multiplies the loaves, but the application is in verse 35
"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life..."
In John 11 Jesus Raises Lazarus, but the application is in verse 25
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"

Seeing the signs is no guarantee that they would believe in Jesus, and He explains why:
John 10:25-27
"25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that i do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as i said unto you 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me: "

_________________
Filipe Costa

"So we are not deceived when we see great signs and wonders. What really matters are the fruits in life."

We should never seek after the gifts of the Spirit and neglect the fruit of the Spirit, but both gifts and fruit are needed for us individually and corporately. The Cessationist does not have a leg to stand on scripturally.

A believer in Jesus Christ does not have to have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and operate in the gifts to be saved, but without the power from on high we will not be effective in our ministry, and every believer has been given gifts for the building up of the Body of Christ.

These spiritual gifts are not for us to make some kind of a show, but are for the building up of the Body of Christ. All of the gifts of the Spirit are to be operated in the love of God.

A believer that moves in a true gift of prophesy but has not allowed Jesus to be Lord of their lives can end up using this gift for self promotion, and end up making shipwreck of not only their lives but the lives of Christians that are giving heed to their prophetic words.

We should not as many denominations have done to pick and choose what we like in the Word. We should embrace the Apostles doctrine, and be obedient to all of the Word of God, the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit, to build up the Church of God in love.

_________________
Mike

We can see that Jesus has Power/Authority

In Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth"

In Philippians 2:9-10
"9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth"

We can see that the name of Jesus is above all others, in heaven, on earth and under the earth.

You've been asking me a lot of questions, but now it's my turn to ask:

If the name of Jesus has power/authority why in Acts 19:13-16 did those men call on the name of Jesus to cast out the evil spirits, but they didn't come out?

_________________
Filipe Costa

Filipe,
You wrote,
“If the name of Jesus has power/authority why in Acts 19:13-16 did those men call on the name of Jesus to cast out the evil spirits, but they didn't come out?”

it is as you say,... they can’t give what they don’t have and they had not received from Jesus.

_________________
Fletcher

Which is equivalent to saying they do not have the seal of the Holy Spirit and were vainly using the name of Christ as incantation formula.

2Cor 12:12

"Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds."

That was for the testimony and glory of God, not for fame, fortune, perpetuation of their names, nor establishment of an ecclesiastical empire,

"That was for the testimony and glory of God, not for fame, fortune, perpetuation of their names, nor establishment of an ecclesiastical empire," Good points

When Jesus reinstated Peter He asked him 3 times
“Simon son of John, do you love Me?”
This is still the key question today.
The question is not if we know all the right theology and have all the gifts etc so that "we" can do mighty works .

To the church in Ephesus he said:…
Revelation 2:4 But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love. 5Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first.
Soon afterwards those churches disappeared! They didn't fall because they lacked the gifts, they fell because they lacked the first love

Another key verse is Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
This is also something we are lacking today!