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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Finney... Again

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havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 975
Pineville, LA

 Re:

Everything you have said could also be applied to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and Charles Taze Russel, the founder of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The amount of rejection one receives from the church is not a measure of how godly someone is.

Pragmatism. That is what you are identifying as the method by which we determine if someone was used by God. Pragmatism asks “Did it produce the desired results?”

Biblical Christianity asks “Did it honor and obey the commands of God in the exultation of Christ?” Finney failed in this. He is the author of many of the pragmatic, manipulative methods to garner a response that you are familiar with already in some churches today.

And you are right about God uses imperfect people. However, that argument bears no weight as that is as true for Paul the Apostle as it is for you and me, but that does not justify Finney.

 2022/7/29 5:58Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 975
Pineville, LA

 Re:

In response to the belief that Finney’s critics did no work, I need only to point to Asahel Nettleton. Here is an excellent, well-researched article explaining the difference between the two.

https://www.ccwtoday.org/2021/08/asahel-nettleton-the-forgotten-evangelist/

 2022/7/30 17:43Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4126
Louisiana

 Re:


“God uses people with imperfect theology, even today. He used both Wesley and Whitfield, Moody and Spurgeon, Luther and Arminius who but disagreed in major points in their theology.“

You can’t argue with the fact that Charles Finney was anointed by God, greatly used by the Lord and many souls were saved through his ministry.


_________________
Mike

 2022/7/31 10:42Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4126
Louisiana

 Re:

►Though controversial at the time, Finney’s success in Rochester and other areas was enhanced by:

Encouraging the immediate reception of new converts as members in churches.
Conducting protracted meetings [revival services] over a period of days or weeks.
Allowing women to pray and exhort during church services.
Utilizing women’s prayer groups to capitalize on existing social networks for evangelism.
During his sermons those who felt the conviction of sin and their need of a Savior were invited to come to the front to sit in the pews reserved for them. This pew was called the “anxious seat.” Others have termed this the “mourners’ bench.”
He would pray for people publicly by name.


►The New York revivals spread from one church to another, and from one town to another.

►These small churches, in towns with very low populations, were frequently reporting conversions in the amounts of: 50, 107, 140, 200, 250, 300, etc.

Results of the Revivals

►Many taverns closed because of a lack of customers.

►Theaters were known to shut down because few would frequent them. (Theaters were considered sinful places of amusement.)

►The District Attorney stated that after the revival in Rochester, NY, the crime rate dropped by two-thirds and remained that way for years.

►Hundreds of thousands became members of the churches.

This Revival was Typical of the Entire Nation

Though the revival in upstate New York was astounding in itself, it was typical of what was taking place throughout the nation at that time. This era is known as the Second Great Awakening (1790 – 1840).

From “Beautiful Feet”


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Mike

 2022/7/31 10:52Profile
deogloria
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 225


 Re:

I have now also done a bit of reading and research about Finney.
I was mainly interested if he preached and taught a biblical Gospel or not.
His influence and "success" and how many churches were filles is not a proof that he was preaching sound Biblical truth.

Here are some quotes from Finney’s “Lectures on Systematic Theology”
1. “Several theologians have held that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit alone … but I might just as lawfully insist that it is the work of man alone.”
2. “The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christ’s obedience to the Law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption/”
3. Christ “could do no more than justify himself. It can never be imputed to us … it was naturally impossible, then, for him to obey on our behalf.”

So it soon becomes clear to me that I wouldn't read or study his teachings.
Again it shows me that it is paramount to know the Word of God and the true Gospel.
To copy any bible teacher or theologian, without testing it, without proper discernment, is dangerous and can easily lead us astray.

"In Christ alone my hope is found he is my light my strength my song this cornerstone this solid ground..."

Blessings

Markus

 2022/7/31 12:28Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4126
Louisiana

 Re:

I am not going to get into a debate over Finney, but I have seen many men of God totally misrepresented on this forum.

“It would be impossible to estimate the influence exerted on revival movements all over the world during the past hundred years by Charles Finney’s lectures on prayer in his Revivals of Religion.” Arthur Wallis ‎

“Finney never made an altar call within the first twenty eight nights of preaching. Most of our evangelists don’t have twenty eight sermons. Twenty eight nights in a row and he never made an altar call. He didn’t preach the love of God. He… didn’t say “you’re a sinner, God loves you.” He said “God is angry with the wicked every day” (Ps 7:11) which the Word of God says. He didn’t preach grace, he preached Law. He didn’t preach love, he preached judgment. He didn’t preach heaven, he preached hell. He didn’t say “you’re a wonderful person” he said “you’re a rebel”. But he got results. 64% of D. L. Moodys converts backslid, 72% of the converts Finney got stood because he knew how to attack the human will, not just the emotions.”Leonard Ravenhill


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Mike

 2022/7/31 14:58Profile
ChrisA
Member



Joined: 2022/7/8
Posts: 11


 Re:

Many fine preachers and evangelists have espoused Finney as a great revivalist and soul winner, but when I dug into his own writings I was stunned to read that he did not believe that Jesus paid the price for our sins at Calvary's cross. This is absolutely fundamental to the Christian faith.

Finney also wrote that many of his converts in New York's "burned out district" had quickly fallen away with reprobate behavior.

 2022/7/31 15:53Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4126
Louisiana

 Re:


Many fine preachers and evangelists have espoused Finney as a great revivalist and soul winner, but when I dug into his own writings I was stunned to read that he did not believe that Jesus paid the price for our sins at Calvary's cross. This is absolutely fundamental to the Christian faith.

Please give the source for the quote where Finney said this.


_________________
Mike

 2022/7/31 16:00Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1337
Germany NRW

 Re:

It does not say, you will recognize them by sound theology, but you will recognize them by their fruits.

Read Matthew 7:15-20


Be careful not to attribute the Spirits work ot the devil nor the devils work to the Spirit. Will you retract your words on judgment day?

If have no doubt that the Holy Spirit worked in Finneys revivals. There was prayer, repentance, worship, reduction in crime and many were swept into the kingdom. All hype and smoke and mirrors? One day we will know.
Yes there are fakes revivals, fake evangelism, fake miracles, promoted by false doctrine, especially in our time. I have been there and got out of it.
Every true revival or move of God will be smeared by those who claim to have orthodoxy on their side. This was the case in Christs time and will be to the end.

 2022/7/31 16:05Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4126
Louisiana

 Re:

“Just at this point the whole question of Gospel salvation opened to my mind in a manner most marvellous to me at the time. I think I then saw, as clearly as I ever have in my life, the reality and fullness of the atonement of Christ. I saw that his work was a finished work; and that instead of having, or needing, any righteousness of my own to recommend me to God, I had to submit myself to the righteousness of God through Christ. Gospel salvation seemed to me to be an offer of something to be accepted; and that it was full and complete; and that all that was necessary on my part, was to get my own consent to give up my sins, and accept Christ. Salvation, it seemed to me, instead of being a thing to be wrought out, by my own works, was a thing to be found entirely in the Lord Jesus Christ, who presented himself before me as my God and my Saviour.”

Charles Finney


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Mike

 2022/7/31 16:42Profile





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