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narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Jade,

I am challenging you, because you wrote in an earlier post

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=63839&forum=34&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0

---------------
Re: Reply To This Post |
Hi Platy,

Acts 17:11 –
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.


I have dared to question, dared to challenge, and, dared to search the scriptures to see whether commonly taught things are true.

I have no interest in “universalism”, whatever it is.

I stand on God’s word alone.

And I have found sufficient scriptural backing to believe that all men will be saved and I have peace in my heart in believing this.
-------------------

This is the core belief of universalism.

 2021/11/15 11:40Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

NP-

When you say “universalism” what do you mean, exactly?


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/15 13:46Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1947
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

But what saith the scripture?

I can do an entire cover of all the scriptures on Hell as there are lots could you read the post as I don't want to go there :) not even for a nano second


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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/15 15:24Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Todd, Wikipedia has a pretty good and exhaustive definition on "Christian Universalism".

 2021/11/15 16:34Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

I know what it means, but there are different versions of it. I was simply wondering what version you meant when you used the term universalism.


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/15 17:05Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


Hi narrowpath,

I said:

Quote:
And I have found sufficient scriptural backing to believe that all men will be saved and I have peace in my heart in believing this.



To this you said:

Quote:
This is the core belief of universalism.



If what I said is the core belief of “universalism”, then I can only say that the anti-universalists are terrifying people with their unscriptural views.

But I will have no affiliation with either the universalists or anti-universalists. I stand firmly on scripture alone.


1 Kings 1:3 –
But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria and say to them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron?’


So, I ask:

Is it because God’s Word (scripture alone) is not the lamp to our feet and the light to our path that we have to inquire of the universalists or the anti-universalists or whoever else for God’s truth?



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Jade

 2021/11/16 10:24Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Jade,

[Quote:
And I have found sufficient scriptural backing to believe that all men will be saved and I have peace in my heart in believing this.]

This actually challenges a core truth of the bible. Jesus did not just come to love us but to save us from our sins and to save us from eternal and unbearable judgment in the lake of fire - because he loves us.

I and others here on SI could quote a lot of scripture to back this up.

If that weren't so, the cosmic drama of lost mankind and our crucified saviour would lose its meaning, because saints and reprobates will finally all end up in glory.

The murderer and his victim, the rapist and his victim all end up in glory?

You quote a lot of scripture, and other good sources and that in itself is not wrong. The problem occures when you quote scripture out of context. I am sorry to be so direct, sister, but this teaching can potentially lead others astray.


Here you have 6 x fire + 3 x hell:

Mark 9:43-48
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 2021/11/16 11:35Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

NP wrote:

//If that weren't so, the cosmic drama of lost mankind and our crucified saviour would lose its meaning, because saints and reprobates will finally all end up in glory.//

If the view of conscious eternal torment is true, one thing that is clear is that Jesus is the cosmic loser with a capital “L.” This is based on percentages alone.

You also mentioned how unjust it would be for both the rapist and murderer to end up in glory with their victims. Does this not in reality happen, even if your view is correct? What about David and the Apostle Paul?

The bottom line is that it galls you that God might do something amazing that offends your sense of justice. I have heard the same thing from my best friend and dear Christian brother. It’s kind of like the field worker guys in the parable that were indignant that they, who worked all day, got paid the same as those who worked for an hour or two. But the master could do what he wants with his money.


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Todd

 2021/11/16 12:33Profile
Elibeth
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Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1121


 Re:

Jade,.. forgive me for not getting back to you sooner, but I was out yesterday.
......
Re:you ask me,...
“Are you saying that a person filled with the Holy Spirit can INDEPENDENTLY do everything that the Most High God can do?”
.............
I do not understand how that question came about,... Jade, please explain.
..........
The Bible says,.. Jesus said,

Matthew 5:14 (KJV)
“Ye are the *light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.“
........
Those that are His, ...this *Light is in us and goes w/ us.... (if we do not hide it), which He tells us not to do.

The *Word of God that He put w/in us by the Holy Spirit,.. and is The Spirit of God.

It is *enlightenment.
It is *The Light to lighten our path,..walk,..

Ephesians 5:8 (KJV)
“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] *light in the Lord: walk as children of *light:”
.......

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
“But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous *light:”
............


And *grace which we did not deserve is the helper, and power from the beginning to do His will,.. to work the *fruit of The Spirit in us as we deal w/life.... (our natural man cannot work the things that be of God)(it is The grace of God that bringeth repentance)
And what is repentance?:
A turning from whatever that comes up in our *old nature.... it is not a ‘one time thing.......
we must always have a *willing mind to *renewing of our mind to go in His way,.. as He guides us by His Spirit.
.............

**As for *The Rock,....
......
Psalms 18:31 (KJV)
“For who [is] God save the LORD? or who [is] a *rock save our God?”
..............
1 Samuel 2:2 (KJV)
“[There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is] none beside thee: neither [is there] any *rock like our God.”
.........

2 Samuel 22:47 (KJV)
“The LORD liveth; and blessed [be] my *rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.”

Psalms 28:1 (KJV) [[[A Psalm] of David.]]
“Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my *rock; be not silent to me: lest, [if] thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.*rock of my salvation.”
..........
Psalms 28:1 (KJV) [[[A Psalm] of David.]]
“ Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my *rock; be not silent to me: lest, [if] thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.”
..........

Psalms 78:35 (KJV)
“And they remembered that God [was] their *rock, and the high God their redeemer.“
.........
The Bible says, God , (who is Spirit, is *The Word),.. and In the Scriptures above that were just given.
...

John 1:1 (KJV)
“In the beginning was *the *Word, and *the *Word was with God, and *the *Word was God.”
(And God is *The Rock,... The *Word)

Jn1:14,
And *The *Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”
.........

Luke 6:47-48 (KJV)
47 “Whosoever cometh to me, and ‘Heareth my sayings,” and *doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 “He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a *rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.”
.......

1 Corinthians 10:2-4 (KJV)
2 “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 “And did all eat the same *spiritual *meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual *Rock that followed them: and that *Rock was Christ.”

1 Peter 2:2-9 (KJV)
2 *As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 “If so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious. (gives much *grace)

4 “To whom coming, [as unto] ‘a living *stone’, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious,

5 “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 “Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief *corner *stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 “Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto ‘them which be disobedient’, the *stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 “And a *stone of stumbling, and a *rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous *light:“
.........

Jade:I hope this helps to clarify.

..............
elizabeth

 2021/11/16 12:41Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Todd,
[The bottom line is that it galls you that God might do something amazing that offends your sense of justice. I have heard the same thing from my best friend and dear Christian brother. It’s kind of like the field worker guys in the parable that were indignant that they, who worked all day, got paid the same as those who worked for an hour or two. But the master could do what he wants with his money.]

You misunderstand me. Of course repentant sinners regardless how heinous their crimes will end up in glory when they persevere, I am talking about reprobate, unrepentant sinners. They will not inherit the kingdom of God but will end up in hell and ultimately the lake of fire.

 2021/11/16 12:47Profile





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