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BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


Quote:
Hell is serious



Hell is serious but when we were dead in our trespasses and in the uncircumcision of our sinful nature, God made us alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross Col. 2:13-15 BSB).

All authority has been given to the Lord Jesus on heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18).

He is the King of Righteousness, King of Peace. He is Lord of all (comment: already a fact), abounding in riches for all who call on Him (Rom.10:12).

Therefore, the church is to announce this Good News and to make disciples of all nations.

The old is gone. The new has come.

Ps. 22:7 –
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.

Hab. 2:14 –
For the earth will be filled
With the knowledge of the glory of the LORD,
As the waters cover the sea.


_________________
Jade

 2021/11/11 7:15Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1620
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: ohhh dear heavens

2 Peter 3 - the whole chapter clearly and undeniably refutes this idea you cling to. While this chapter plainly states God desires all men to be saved, it equally and clearly states that will not be the case and will include the destruction of not only the wicked but also those whom twist the scriptures-

If what you put forth had any merit whatsoever, the manifold warnings from Paul, Peter, Jude, James, etc... would be not only unnecessary but openly misleading to the reader and as such pose an impediment to the reader/hearer. Why would God spend so much time in His word to warn people of something that was never a threat to them to begin with??

Also regarding Lots wife,... she was destroyed because she disobeyed a direct commandment- this is plainly stated in scripture-

Not sure why you would cling to such strange doctrines but if you belong to Him, He will discipline you and if you receive the discipline of the Lord you will be considered His child and if you reject the Lords discipline you will be a bastard - (Hebrews 12)

Eternal separation from God is real, it is terrifying - the scriptures are undeniably clear on this from beginning to end. To suggest otherwise is not only an affront to the revealed word of God but in fact overthrows faith of many who would otherwise believe and repent, as such is a damnable heresy 💯


_________________
Fletcher

 2021/11/11 8:24Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


I agree with all Peter wrote in his 2 Peter Epistle.


SOME POINTS:

(1)

2 Pet. 1:3-4 –
seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by (margin: or to) His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

We escape the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ --- 2 Pet. 2:20.


Comment:

Life and godliness are by the GRACE of God. God’s divine power has granted to us EVERYTHING pertaining to life and godliness.

Life and godliness are through the true KNOWLEDGE of Christ. It is through KNOWING CHRIST as Paul said:

Phil. 3:10-11 –
that I may KNOW Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Eph. 3:19 –
and to KNOW the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

“KNOW” is to experientially know and not just head knowledge and giving mental assent.



(2)

2 Pet. 2:1-2 –
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even *** denying the Master *** who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will *** follow their sensuality ***, and because of them the *** way of the truth *** will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Comment:

A key phrase here is “denying the Master”.

People can deny Christ by:

Instead of having faith in Christ as the great I AM, the only TRUTH, they deny Him and say in their own hearts, “I am, and there is no one besides me (Isa. 47:10)” i.e., self-exaltation and pride.

Instead of denying themselves and following Christ, they deny Christ and follow the lusts of their flesh, the lust of their eyes and their boastful pride of life.


The true and only way to be saved from this error of denying Christ is to die to self and let Christ live in us. It is knowing this eternal truth as an unshakeable reality in us:

Gal. 2:20 –
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

And Christ can live in us only through the Holy Spirit by faith (Eph. 3:14-19). It is by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves. It is the GIFT of God (Eph 2:8-9).

Error is introduced when this truth is denied or modified and bent to fit another theology.



(3)

2 Pet. 3:7 –
But by His word *** the present heavens and earth *** are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

There surely is a day coming for the judgement and destruction of ungodly men.

But the fire is not in a “hell” that is commonly preached but in *** the present heavens and earth *** as Peter said.

Peter gave more details:

2 Pet. 3:10-12 –
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up……all these things are to be destroyed in this way…………the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

It will surely be unimaginably terrifying for the ungodly on the earth who will be burnt with the earth.

Paul tells us that the saved in Christ will be with Christ in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-17) and so escape this terror.

What next?

Peter then spoke of “new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells (v. 13)”.

Other scripture verses tell us more:

Isa. 26:9 –
For when the earth experiences Your judgments
The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

1 Sam. 2:6 –
The LORD kills and makes alive;
He brings down to Sheol and raises up.

1 Cor. 15:21-28 –
For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order:
Christ the first fruits,
after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
When *** all things are subjected to Him ***, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, *** so that God may be all in all ***.



_________________
Jade

 2021/11/12 22:08Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1947
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

To me hell is a doctrine that I know it is in scripture and I believe in 100%
As I used to hand out heaven and hell your choice

There are three greek words used
γέεννα Gehanna
https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm
ᾍδης Hades
https://biblehub.com/greek/86.htm
ταρταρόω Tartarus
https://biblehub.com/greek/5020.htm

Tartarus is reserved for the angels

I know I dont want to be in Hell one minute let alone fifty seconds.

We know Hell is eternal

Revelation 20:10
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20
The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire

I used to get the answer why does a loving god send people to an eternal hell and I answered that God would not be a loving God if he didn't send people to an eternal hell

When I am evangelising on the street, I used to ask them would you want to live eternally with a murderer or an unrepentant sinner.

If there is no hell, there is no justice for all the crime that is committed in this world. As God knows he is omnipresent he sees every crime simultaneously. As he became a man he knows the temptations.

How can god be a righteous judge if there is no hell, we have prisons where we put criminals yet does not God have the right to put those who disobey him.

I used to struggle with the doctrine of Hell until I realised that it is not up to me.
I can believe that Gravity is not true but that doesn't make it not true or different versions of Gravity if I jump of a building Gravity still works and I have done that.
If the same God created the world created heaven and Hell.

I may not believe in its existence that doesn't stop it from not existing.

As no one is righteous no not one all have sinned and fallen sinned and fallen short of the glory of god and I am the chief of sinners, we are rebels who rebel against gods righteousness.

If I phoned up the queen or the president and decided to stay in the queens house tonight she would not let me in unless I know the queen.

Why should I go to heaven and unless I know his savoiur who died on the cross for my sin, He created heaven and hell and I cant come to God on my terms as I can believe that Buses arent real and walk in front of a bus.

Eternity is a long time , I don't want to go to Hell.


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/13 16:33Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1121


 Re:

Re:Jade,
I cannot agree with you.

Are we not to see, hear,..share, the *whole counsel of God,’ that was preached through Jesus’ mouth plus many others, when God prompts the heart to speak this?

I believe, if we want to get a glimpse of what *hell is, just pull up a great
*volcano, (on the web,)where the black-red lava, ..*brimstone) (sulfur).. is flowing down the mountain, and look deep with-in that volcano.

Well, this is what prompted my unforgiving heart at one time in my life, when I just with in my own self could not forgive. (I was in the hospital, and that is what came on the History Channel. The Lord impressed on me that if I did not forgive that is where I would be at,.... in the volcano. When I got home. I heededThe Lords warning to me.
........
The Bible says ,Satan *diveiveth the whole world.(Rev)

Do we believe that he would take advantage of every conceivable thing to draw men into *hell ?... ...Awe,.. would he do such a thing ?

We could think on these things:

What about *disception: ..?

*the gospel?’
Jesus say, over and over what the gospel is,...
‘The *gospel of the kingdom’ must be preached’
The gospel is the “gospel of the kingdom,
It is how we are to live under the Lordship of Christ”

*the good news, is:
Jesus has come, preached to us *the Way, the Word ,straight from God, to everyone,... and has made an *entrance for us, through His Blood, to enter in... and power to become the children of God)

*faith:
Abram believed God, .. he heard,.. he obeyed

*grace:
“The Devine effluence upon the heart,..(the hearing of the Word)
“And it’s (that anointed Word), reflection in the life.”


We are called by His *grace to be:
“born again,”
*filled with His Spirit”
*Led by His Spirit

We have come out of *the law,..(the reading of it on the wall,and trying to do it.
but now, we are called by His Name, ... His Word, .. His Grace, into The Spirit .. to be *led ,.. a follower of Jesus Christ.
...............
elizabeth



 2021/11/13 20:48Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2166


 Re: begrudgingly


Todd said,

Obedience arising from fear of punishment is always begrudged obedience.

If we do not love the King, whatever begrudged obedience we may render is a sham. It is not salvation.

_____________________________________________

Yes, we must "love the King", but we must also fear Him!

Jesus said,

But I will warn you Whom to fear: fear Him Who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell.Yes, I tell you, fear Him! Luke 12:5

Treat everyone with high regard: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. 1 Peter 2:17

My son, fear both the LORD and the king, and don't keep company with rebels. Proverbs 24:21

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; but the foolish despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Proverbs 9:10

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that one may turn away from the snares of death.Proverbs 14:27

By steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for, and by the fear of the Lord one turns away from evil.Proverbs 16:6

Do not let your heart envy sinners, but be zealous for the fear of the LORD all the day; for surely there is a hereafter, and your hope will not be cut off. Proverbs 23:17-18

Blessed is the one who fears the Lord always, but whoever hardens his heart will fall into calamity.
Proverbs 28:14


John Bunyan wrote on "The Fear of God", you may read it for free at the following link:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/bunyan/A_Treatise_on_the_Fear_of_God_-_John_Bunyan.pdf

 2021/11/13 23:53Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 143


 Re:

Just some of my thoughts:
Jesus said: "go and preach the Gospel..." Paul's concern was the true Gospel.
A true conversion is a supernatural work of God by the Holy Spirit.
We become a "new creation" and "by their fruit we shall know them"
Therefore it needs true Gospel preaching and the work of the Holy spirit to become a new creation.

As believers we need to continue in our faith. With genuine faith we learn about the goodness of God and the severity of God. (Rom. 11:22)
You find this throughout the Bible.

 2021/11/14 3:11Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


If we go into the region of darkness, we will be overwhelmed by the forces there.

The Holy Spirit alone knows how and will convict the world of sin and of righteousness.

We are to send out the light and the truth and stay in the light ourselves.

Ps. 43:3 –
O send out Your light and Your truth, let them lead me;
Let them bring me to Your holy hill
And to Your dwelling places.

The church is specifically sent to preach the gospel (exceedingly good news) of the Kingdom of God (sovereign rule of God) to all creation and to make disciples of all nations (Mark 16:15 & Matt. 28:18-20).

Jesus is Lord abounding in riches for all who call on Him (Rom. 10:12).

Ps. 89:2 –
For I have said,
“Lovingkindness will be built up forever;
In the heavens You will establish Your faithfulness.”

Ps. 36:7-9 –
How precious is Thy lovingkindness, O God!
And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Thy wings.
They drink their fill of the abundance of Your house;
And You give them to drink of the river of Your delights.
For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.


The church is also exhorted TO PRAY FOR THE SALVATION OF ALL MEN (1 Tim. 2:1-6).


The story of our salvation is a story of God’s wondrous and unfailing LOVE that passes knowledge.

God demonstrated His own LOVE toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Rom. 5:8).

The LOVE of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Rom. 5:5).

That we, being rooted and grounded in LOVE, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the LOVE of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that we may be filled up to all the fullness of God (Eph. 3:17-19).

Nothing can separate us from the LOVE of Christ, and we will overwhelmingly conquer all enemies THROUGH HIM WHO LOVED US.

Rom. 8:37-39 –
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer THROUGH HIM WHO LOVED US
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the LOVE of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Hosea 11:4 (NKJV) –
I drew them with gentle cords,
With bands of LOVE,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.


----------


Ps. 127:1 –
Unless the LORD builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;
Unless the LORD guards the city,
The watchman keeps awake in vain.
It is vain for you to rise up early,
To retire late,
To eat the bread of painful labors;
For He gives to His beloved even in his sleep.



_________________
Jade

 2021/11/14 7:49Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Jade,

Do you believe that there be souls cast into the lake of fire and suffer for eternity?

Do you believe that all men, saints and reprobates alike will one day be saved and reconciled to God?

 2021/11/14 11:17Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 143


 Re:

Thanks Jade
These are all good verses about the goodness of God.
But can't you see the severity of God for those who disobey Him?
Example: we know that after the exodus the majority perished in the wilderness because the disobeyed God and fell into idol worship.

Markus

 2021/11/14 12:05Profile





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