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JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1620
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: this Law 🙏🏻

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=24618


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Fletcher

 2021/10/29 8:38Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re: this Law 🙏🏻


Please give transcript or summary of message.


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Jade

 2021/10/29 8:57Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 478
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Malachi 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ My covenant was with Levi of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid. ( the Hebrew meaning for 'afraid' here is to show terror and dread of God. )

“The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.”
— Malachi 2:6 (KJV)


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David Keel

 2021/10/29 9:50Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 791
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

The law I preach is the law of Moses. Jesus preached this to the rich young ruler to convict him of sin. Was Jesus wrong? Perhaps he could have consulted some modern day preachers to take a softer, more grace-filled approach.

If the law of Moses is presented to a sinner, and allowed to do its work, being used by the Holy Spirit to convict of sin, it will lead to repentance; and if their repentance is genuine, they will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation.

Or, we can tell sinners about God's love and forgiveness when they are not convicted of sin; before the Holy Spirit has done His work of conviction in the soul. They will either laugh and throw it back in your face, or they will "accept" Jesus as their Savior, "try Him out" for a time, and "backslide" (although they were never born again to begin with), and turn back to the world, telling anyone who happens to ask that christianity is a sham. I have seen this happen more times than I care to remember (not because of me though).

"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil." Proverbs 8:13 Are the love and fear of God incompatible? Hardly! They go hand in hand.

I have already quoted Jesus Christ Himself exhorting us to fear God because He can destroy both soul and body in hell. I don't mean preaching a scary sermon on hell, necessarily, although God can use such sermons. But because hell is a terrifying reality, sinners need to be aware of its existence and the measures they can take to avoid it.

I have heard Duncan Campbell sermons numerous times, and I have his book on the revival in Lewis. I remember one instance in particular where a young man is crying out "Lord, is there mercy for me?" There was most definitely deep conviction of sin there.


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Nigel Holland

 2021/10/29 13:55Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


Quote:
Perhaps he could have consulted some modern day preachers to take a softer, more grace-filled approach.



We stand on the Word of God.

God is Love (1 John 4:16).

Ps. 57:9-11 –
I will give thanks to You, O Lord, among the peoples;
I will sing praises to You among the nations.
For Your lovingkindness is great to the heavens
And Your truth to the clouds.
Be exalted above the heavens, O God;
Let Your glory be above all the earth.

This is our God:

Hosea 11:4 –
I drew them with gentle cords,
With bands of love,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.

Jer. 31:3 --
I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness.


Without doubt, God hates evil and no evil dwells with God. We are all doomed, without exception. It is by God’s abundant lovingkindness that we can again enter God’s house.

Ps.5:7 (ESV)–
For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
v. 7 –
But I, through the ***** abundance of your steadfast love *****,
will enter your house.
I will bow down toward your holy temple in the fear of you.


1 John 4:19 –
We love, because He first loved us.

Song of Songs 1:4 –
“We will rejoice in you and be glad;
We will extol your love more than wine.
Rightly do they love you.”



Quote:
We must preach the law, then the gospel, in that order.



Quote:
The law I preach is the law of Moses. Jesus preached this to the rich young ruler to convict him of sin.



The rich young ruler held on to his sin – he could not give up all his worldly riches to follow Jesus. It is the gospel that is the power of God for salvation (Rom.1:16). Jesus could not preach the gospel to him then because He had not yet gone to the cross.

Paul did not preach the law first, then the gospel. The Galatians began with the Spirit, not with the works of the Law. He said to the Galatians:

Gal. 3:1-3 –
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? ***** Having begun by the Spirit *****, are you now being perfected by the flesh?


Personally, I have not heard a preaching of the law first followed by the gospel. Usually, it is the preaching of the fallen condition of man followed by the gospel. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God……the wages of sin is death……the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Quote:
I have heard Duncan Campbell sermons numerous times, and I have his book on the revival in Lewis. I remember one instance in particular where a young man is crying out "Lord, is there mercy for me?" There was most definitely deep conviction of sin there.



The deep conviction of the sin there was the work of the Holy Spirit in answer to intercessory prayer for God’s grace.



Quote:

"The fear of the LORD is to hate evil." Proverbs 8:13



Agree!

Then I ask: What exactly is evil?

Let us let scripture interpret scripture.

God says this is evil:

Jer. 3:13 –
“For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me,
The fountain of living waters,
To hew for themselves cisterns,
Broken cisterns That can hold no water.”

v.19 --
………Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter
For you to forsake the LORD your God,
And the dread of Me is not in you,” declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

Therefore, we do not fear the Lord when we leave God for self-life, self-glory, self-confidence, and self-sufficiency. This is the way that leads to pride and arrogance and covetousness and anger. This is the way that leads to all deeds of wickedness and destruction and there is no satisfaction and no peace.

We fear the Lord when we seek Him and desire Him and run after Him, as a deer pants for streams of water, and all our springs are in Him. We fear the Lord when Christ is our all in all. Then the eye of the Lord is always on us (Ps. 33:18), we have no lack (Ps. 34:9) great is the goodness of God to us (Ps. 31:19) and the angel of the Lord encamps around us and rescues (v.6). Then the Lord leads us in the ways of joy and peace and make us lie in green pastures (Ps. 25:12, Ps. 23, Isa. 55:12). Then we know the everlasting lovingkindness of God (Ps. 103:17), the Lord is our helper and shield (Ps. 115:11) and the Lord delights in us (Ps. 147:11).

Therefore,

Prov. 14:26-27 –
In the fear of the LORD there is strong confidence,
And his children will have refuge.
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life,
That one may avoid the snares of death.

1 John 5:11-12 –
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



Quote:

Malachi 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ My covenant was with Levi of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid. ( the Hebrew meaning for 'afraid' here is to show terror and dread of God. )

“The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.”



Mal. 2:5 (KJV) -
My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.


“afraid” – Strong’s Hebrew 2865 – meaning to be shattered or dismayed.

I see this as “I” or the “self-life” shattered before God.

The Lord Jesus said: “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.” – Matt. 16:24


In the fear of the Lord in the new covenant of grace:

Our old self was crucified with Christ -- Rom. 6:6.

We are a new creation in Christ; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new” -- 2 Cor. 5:17.

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me -- Gal. 2:20.

Not to us, O LORD, not to us,
But to Thy name give glory
Because of Thy lovingkindness, because of Thy truth.
-- Ps. 115:1.


In the fear of the Lord in the new covenant of grace:

John 1:16 – Of His fullness we receive grace upon grace.

John 16:23-24 – We can ask the Father and receive all things in Jesus’ name so that our joy may be full.


Praise the Lord!





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Jade

 2021/10/30 11:41Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 791
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Jade, I think perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. I absolutely believe in God's grace and love. I know we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not by the works of the law. I believe all of the new covenant promises. Thank God He sent His Son to die for us! That blood of the everlasting covenant is the only thing that saves us from sin and hell, not keeping the commandments.

However, listen to Paul: "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight..." Romans 3:20 Couldn't be more clear, right? But read the rest of that verse "...for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

I don't want to get into an argument or a long, drawn out debate. I do recommend you listen to Keith Green's series on "What's Wrong With The Gospel" (here is part 1):

http://ia800308.us.archive.org/5/items/SERMONINDEX_SID0777/SID0777.mp3

And also "Hell's Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort:

http://ia800308.us.archive.org/5/items/SERMONINDEX_SID0777/SID0777.mp3


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Nigel Holland

 2021/10/30 14:34Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


Ray Comfort’s approach is not my approach.

I have listened to Keith Green’s message (Part 1) and do not disagree with what he said about the blood and the cross of the Lord Jesus.

Song: Make My Life a Prayer to You

Sung by Keith Green. Lyrics by Melody Green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjcD3oWBJIw

Quote:
I want to die and let You give
Your life to me so I might live
And share the hope You gave to me
I want to share
The love that set me free



This song moved me and was a blessing to me in the early years of my Christian life.



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Jade

 2021/10/31 8:16Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:


This universalism challenges the core of Christian beliefs. It is closer to Buddhism than to Christianity.

Because God is love and abhorres sin he made atonement for it on the cross.

The unrepentant sinner actually loves darkness and hates the light and God himself so why would God force himself on such a man?

Unrepentant sinners in glory would taint heaven, perhaps make it unbearable.

Hell would be an empty and pointless entity. Jesus would have spoken empty threats and promoted lies. He could not be God then.

If universalism was true, keep on sinning and would be a reasonable option, because in the end he will be rewarded for sinning and can laugh into the face of those who walked the narrow path. He will numb his conscience and gain some gratification of sin here on earth. Though he may face some consequences for sinning, it is worth it. Or even better, get away with it he is shrewed enough. What a terrible scenario!

If sinners who reject the atonement and still receive forgiveness, the cross would be an absolute farce.


 2021/10/31 12:08Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

NP-

I am not going to enter into this discussion other than to state that you are grossly misrepresenting the position of Universal Reconciliation, at least as held by evangelicals.

It may not be the correct viewpoint but you should at least understand it before slamming it. Nothing you have said about it is correct, and I repeat nothing.


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Todd

 2021/10/31 15:49Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


narrowpath,

Todd is right.

I do not know what you are talking about.


Also, this thread is not about “universalism”. It is about “scaring the ungodly with a sermon on hell”.


John 16:8-9 –
“And He (the Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict *** the world *** concerning sin…………; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Zech. 4:6 –
“Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,” says the LORD of hosts.



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Jade

 2021/11/1 7:18Profile





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