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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2166


 Re: HELL IS NECESSARY




Hell is Necessary -

https://youtu.be/bF7t6rDLcFw

 2021/11/21 22:37Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

No one in this thread has said hell is not necessary.


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/22 14:37Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1121


 Re:

Bro Todd,
I believe that this was just the name of this video.,...

“Hell is Necessary”


I believe that this brother just wanted to share the content.


I did watch it, and there was a lot said.

✝️

.............

elizabeth

 2021/11/22 15:32Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

Understood- but it seemed to be posted in response to what has been said. And no one has said hell is not necessary.


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/22 19:13Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1121


 Re:

Oh.. ok, sorry Brother

.............
elizabeth

 2021/11/22 20:52Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1947
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

It is interesting as the first doctrine most of the cults deny is the doctrine of Hell.

The JWS remove the passage
Mark 9:44
where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’

Mark 9:43-45
New King James Version

43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life [a]maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to [b]hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 [c]where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into [d]hell, [e]into the fire that shall never be quenched—


Luke 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with [i]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

Matthew 5:22 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν τοῦ πυρός
NAS: [enough to go] into the fiery hell.
KJV: in danger of hell fire.
INT: to the hell of fire

Matthew 5:29 N-AFS
GRK: βληθῇ εἰς γέενναν
NAS: body to be thrown into hell.
KJV: should be cast into hell.
INT: be cast into hell

Matthew 5:30 N-AFS
GRK: σου εἰς γέενναν ἀπέλθῃ
NAS: body to go into hell.
KJV: should be cast into hell.
INT: of you into hell be cast

Matthew 10:28 N-DFS
GRK: ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ
NAS: soul and body in hell.
KJV: body in hell.
INT: to destroy in hell

Matthew 18:9 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν τοῦ πυρός
NAS: and be cast into the fiery hell.
KJV: to be cast into hell fire.
INT: into the hell of the fire

Matthew 23:15 N-GFS
GRK: αὐτὸν υἱὸν γεέννης διπλότερον ὑμῶν
NAS: a son of hell as yourselves.
KJV: the child of hell than yourselves.
INT: him a son of hell twofold more than yourselves

Matthew 23:33 N-GFS
GRK: κρίσεως τῆς γεέννης
NAS: will you escape the sentence of hell?
KJV: escape the damnation of hell?
INT: sentence of hell

Mark 9:43 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν εἰς τὸ
NAS: to go into hell, into the unquenchable
KJV: to go into hell, into the fire
INT: into hell into the

Mark 9:45 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν εἰς τὸ
NAS: feet, to be cast into hell,
KJV: to be cast into hell, into the fire
INT: into hell into the

Mark 9:47 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν
NAS: eyes, to be cast into hell,
KJV: to be cast into hell fire:
INT: into hell

Luke 12:5 N-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν γέενναν ναί λέγω
NAS: to cast into hell; yes,
KJV: to cast into hell; yea, I say
INT: into hell yes I say

James 3:6 N-GFS
GRK: ὑπὸ τῆς γεέννης
NAS: and is set on fire by hell.
KJV: it is set on fire of hell.
INT: by hell
https://biblehub.com/greek/1067.htm

Hades
https://biblehub.com/greek/86.htm
Matthew 11:23 N-GMS
GRK: ὑψωθήσῃ ἕως ᾅδου καταβήσῃ ὅτι
NAS: will you? You will descend to Hades; for if
KJV: shalt be brought down to hell: for if
INT: have been lifted up to Hades will be brought down for

Matthew 16:18 N-GMS
GRK: καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν
NAS: and the gates of Hades will not overpower
KJV: and the gates of hell shall not
INT: and [the] gates of hades not will prevail against

Luke 10:15 N-GMS
GRK: ἕως τοῦ ᾅδου καταβήσῃ
NAS: will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
KJV: shalt be thrust down to hell.
INT: to Hades you will be brought down

Luke 16:23 N-DMS
GRK: ἐν τῷ ᾅδῃ ἐπάρας τοὺς
NAS: In Hades he lifted up his eyes,
KJV: And in hell he lift up his
INT: in Hades having lifted up the

Acts 2:27 N-AMS
GRK: μου εἰς ᾅδην οὐδὲ δώσεις
NAS: MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR
KJV: soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer
INT: of me in Hades nor will you give

Acts 2:31 N-AMS
GRK: ἐνκατελείφθη εἰς ᾅδην οὔτε ἡ
NAS: ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR
KJV: left in hell, neither his
INT: was left in Hades nor the

Revelation 1:18 N-GMS
GRK: καὶ τοῦ ᾅδου
NAS: the keys of death and of Hades.
KJV: have the keys of hell and of death.
INT: and of Hades

Revelation 6:8 N-NMS
GRK: καὶ ὁ ᾅδης ἠκολούθει μετ'
NAS: Death; and Hades was following
KJV: was Death, and Hell followed with
INT: and Hades follows with

Revelation 20:13 N-NMS
GRK: καὶ ὁ ᾅδης ἔδωκαν τοὺς
NAS: which were in it, and death and Hades gave
KJV: death and hell delivered up the dead
INT: and Hades gave up the

Revelation 20:14 N-NMS
GRK: καὶ ὁ ᾅδης ἐβλήθησαν εἰς
NAS: death and Hades were thrown
KJV: death and hell were cast into
INT: and Hades were cast into


The problem is that if you dont believe Hell is forever then Heaven is not forever

KJV with Strong's
Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there and they need no candle __ neither light of the sun for the Lord God giveth them light and they shall reign for ever and ever

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 22:5 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
καὶ νὺξ οὐκ ἔσται ἔτι, καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν χρείαν φωτὸς λύχνου καὶ φωτὸς ἡλίου, ὅτι Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς φωτίσει ἐπ’ αὐτούς, καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.

The thing is if Hell is not eternal then Heaven is not eternal as the same word is used in the greek

KJV with Strong's
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false. prophet are and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 20:10 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ὁ διάβολος ὁ πλανῶν αὐτοὺς ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ θείου, ὅπου καὶ τὸ θηρίον καὶ ὁ ψευδοπροφήτης· καὶ βασανισθήσονται ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.

If the devil is not tormented forever then we do not live with Jesus forever.

Chris Date and Phil Fernandes Debate Hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaPz33dVPvc

Visions of Heaven and Hell Bunyan’s original title: My Sojourn to Heaven and Stopover in Hell)
https://amzn.to/3p0NmSK

Heaven and Hell by edward Donnelley
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0851518117/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0

Heaven and Hell by R A Torrey
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heaven-Hell-R-Torrey-ebook/dp/B00TYZMBRW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=heaven+hell+r+a+torrey&qid=1637700725&qsid=260-9746551-3025029&s=books&sr=1-1&sres=0883684144%2C1629117862%2CB00W64BGZ6&srpt=ABIS_EBOOKS


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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/23 15:54Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

Dom- the “worm does not die” passage is taken from the last verse of Isaiah, which is talking about literal worms eating literal corpses. Those worms in Isaiah are not alive and the corpses are dust.

Why must you read more into the words Jesus used in quoting directly from Isaiah? Isaiah wasn’t talking about eternal worms and neither was Jesus.


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/23 21:20Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1238
Germany NRW

 Re:


[Those worms in Isaiah are not alive and the corpses are dust.]

Todd - what made you not accept what is written here?

NOT means NOT
and
DIE means DIE

Something that does not die must be alive unless I am totally mistaken.

ISA 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall NOT DIE, NEITHER shall their FIRE be QUENCHED; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.



 2021/11/24 3:59Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re:


Are carcases dead or alive?

Can carcases be eternally tormented?


_________________
Jade

 2021/11/24 6:33Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

“And they [the righteous] shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” (Isa. 66:24)

Commentators often assume (without question) that Isaiah is presenting a vision of a place of eternal torment. Though there is actually nothing in the passage itself, or its context, to encourage this idea, their sole reason for doing so would seem to be a desire to harmonize the passage with Jesus’ words in Mark 9 that also (perhaps too hastily) are applied to hell. A comparison of Isaiah 66:24 with Mark 9:43 confirms that both passages are talking about Gehenna, and it is at least possible that both passages have in view the Valley of Hinnom and the AD 70 judgment upon Jerusalem (Romans tossed countless dead bodies into this Valley of burning in the slaughter of 70AD). If Jesus had this in mind, then Isaiah (whom Jesus was quoting) probably did as well. We might at least be skeptical of the suggestion that Isaiah was describing anyone experiencing torment in fire, since it is clear that the inhabitants of the place he described were not living, conscious people, as the traditional view of hell would have them. They are specifically referred to as “corpses.” Furthermore, they are said to be in a place where the righteous, apparently, may view and walk among them. And a closer look at the context of this passage from Isaiah (specifically chapters 60–66) shows us that it seems to be speaking of the establishment of the new covenant order under Messiah, and the consequent obliteration of the old order (the temple system). In fact, this section specifically mentions Jerusalem and the temple being burned, as in AD 70. That these events have a first-century fulfillment was the view of the New Testament writers, who often quoted from this section, invariably applying its statements to their own times. Therefore, it remains plausible, even in the light of these strange phrases of immortal worms and unquenchable flames, to see Gehenna as a reference to the impending judgment coming upon Jesus’ contemporaries, from which they could escape only by embracing His kingdom. True believers fled Jerusalem before Romans invaded.


_________________
Todd

 2021/11/24 12:02Profile





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