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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Vaccine question

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1927


 Re:

Quote:

Well that’s only a “fact” at the exclusion of other “facts”.. ie; Israel 🤷🏽‍♂️




I don't understand what fact Israel is showing here. If we are not believing what we see before our eyes in USA with hospitals being full then how is something happening in Israel can give a rational solution? We do not know what virus strain is affecting Israel, we do not know the age group of infected people in Israel. Further the point of discussion is the need for hospitalization with people who are not vaccinated.

Let us face a practical question. Suppose a Strong Christian who is not vaccinated finds a fellow brother fighting for life with stroke (not related to Covid). He is then taking this brother to multiple hospitals only to be rejected by them due to lack of beds. Then how in clear conscience can he still hold his stand about vaccines when he sees his brother die because of people like him who are not taking vaccines have occupied all the beds in hospitals?

One possible solution that my vaccinated brother suggested is - people who do not take vaccines can have this self attested letter in their pocket that reads like "Let me die of Covid at home and do not take me to hospitals", this way they can ensure that only they are affected by their stand and not others. This makes sure they are not a nuisance to the society which all facts and study point them to be. This way they will never waste a hospital bed and give a chance for others to live. This is similar to how JW people have a letter like allow me to die bleeding! I am not sure how many so called believers are willing to pay this price!


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/15 13:41Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1213
Germany NRW

 Re:

I got the vaccine and it definitely did not come with the mark of the beast. It save lifes, yours and others.

There is no biblical argument for not taking the vaccine. It is more a matter of common sense that many Christians lack because we tend to spiritualize what is to be judged by reason or we apply common sense to what is to be judged spiritually.
Vaccine has been around for over a century and has saved millions of lifes. We enjoy average life spans around 80 years because of vaccine. Where you born 700 years ago you had a 40-60% chance to die of the bulbonic plague.

I do believe Covid vaccination is just a forerunner of what is yet to come. The mark of the beast will carry a lot of seeming benefits and access to a one world system that will exclude and persecute and ultimately kill all who do not participate.

Yes there is the advance of cultural marxism, the great reset, climate nonsense, and all that nonsense going on - so what!
Christ and his overcomers with have the victory. HIS Story - history has already been written.
Remember our dear brother Keith Daniel died of Covid.
We had 4 cases of Covid in our tiny 20+ fellowship, one suffers long term effects, the others recovered so far so good.


 2021/9/15 14:27Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 144


 Re:

"I do believe Covid vaccination is just a forerunner of what is yet to come. The mark of the beast will carry a lot of seeming benefits and access to a one world system that will exclude and persecute and ultimately kill all who do not participate."

We are in agreement here. Since I also believe it is a forerunner to the mark I chose not to take it. What would be the issue here then?

 2021/9/15 15:03Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 144


 Re:

Also to make it fair you should add the concerns about covid-19 and the vaccine to the list below.

"Yes there is the advance of cultural marxism, the great reset, climate nonsense, and all that nonsense going on - so what!"

 2021/9/15 15:15Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1213
Germany NRW

 Re:

[We are in agreement here. Since I also believe it is a forerunner to the mark I chose not to take it. What would be the issue here then?]

Very plain and simple, you will bear the risk of getting the virus for yourself and pose a much greater risk to pass it on to someone else who may not survive it.






 2021/9/15 15:21Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 136


 Re:

Another one of those sad discussions...
I didn't want to get involved but I think some have gone a bit too far with their comments:

"It is more a matter of common sense that many Christians lack ...."
You shouldn't make such comments, you don't know our true reasons for our decisions.

Many talk about "facts" without knowing the definition:
"A fact is an occurrence in the real world.[1] The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability—that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience..." (Wikipedia)
We should first go and verify what we call "facts" before we post them. We live in a world with many "alternative facts"

To mention the Mark of the Beast is pure speculation and therefore unhelpful

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its
shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God". Hebrews 12:2

 2021/9/15 15:45Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1927


 Re:

Quote:

Very plain and simple, you will bear the risk of getting the virus for yourself and pose a much greater risk to pass it on to someone else who may not survive it.



As a vaccinated person even I have the same risk. The point of this discussion is not about effectiveness of vaccine in containing the virus, it can be debated both ways.

But what we observe in the hospitals today cannot be debated. We are seeing hospitals flooded with Covid patients in critical condition and more than 90% of them are not vaccinated. I myself know a brother in my church who met this fate and then regretted for not taking the vaccine earlier.

When our freedom is affecting others then as a Christian we need to examine it. We cannot turn blind eyes to it. I do not believe Jesus I know will take a stand if it is killing others. He would rather sacrifice his life than to see others suffer as a consequence of his action.

This is a question that needs to be considered and answered by those who do not want the name of our Lord to be blasphemed by their actions.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/15 16:42Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 144


 Re:

"Very plain and simple, you will bear the risk of getting the virus for yourself and pose a much greater risk to pass it on to someone else who may not survive it."

You see the problem here right? The implication then is that you took the vaccination out of fear for yourself/others while implying that others have a lack of faith/trust in God.

Making such statements such as "God is in control" and "Who cares about this or that" while at the same being worried about covid-19 is folly.

I come back to my original point. Its about prioritization (for myself anyway). Covid-19 is nothing compared to marxism in all ways. Brutality, death rate, quality of life, etc.

Anyway I'm stepping out of this discussion simply way too many strawman arguments in here to wade through. I've already made my points.

I'll be adding some links later in another thread to address some obvious things that may be mislabeled as conspiracy theories.

 2021/9/15 16:59Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1927


 Re:

This is one of the valid argument placed by the brother who was in the side of vaccine -

If Christians say that they do not want to take the vaccine because they fear it is mark of the beast then why not suffer for it. Those who rejected the mark of the beast according to the Bible, chose to suffer for it. But how many Christians who do not want to listen to scientific facts about vaccine and call it a lie but when they get infected they want the same science to give them the best of health care in western hospitals? Is this not hierocracy? Why not rather deny your right for healthcare and suffer, just like how you deny the advice of the same healthcare about vaccine? Why not rather deny all treatment for Covid if you get infected? Why do you want to flood the hospital beds when you get infected but at the same time deny all the warnings given by the same healthcare?

So the solution suggested by my brother was to carry a self attested letter saying - "I chose to ignore all the healthcare advice about vaccine to keep my faith in Christ, so allow me to die if I get infected by Covid. Do not take me to hospitals". This way you will not be a stumbling block to others and you chose to suffer for your faith!

How many in this forum are willing to sign this letter? IF not are we then not hypocrites?


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/15 17:00Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1927


 Re:

Quote:

Anyway I'm stepping out of this discussion simply way too many strawman arguments in here to wade through. I've already made my points.



As far as I see no one here has given any valid answer to the problem we see before us today. The hospitals are flooded with Covid patients who have rejected the vaccine. This is preventing needy people from getting health care that they deserve. In the name of freedom, those who reject vaccine are affecting the very basic need of others. This is a serious issue. Just acting like everything is normal is not an answer.

I still do not see anyone giving a valid reasoning for this situation in our hand.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/15 17:07Profile





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