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 Re: The Constraining Natue of the Land Promises

THE CONSTRAINING NATURE OF THE LAND PROMISES
(capital emphasis throughout by docs)

From the standpoint of the everlasting covenant that would be sealed in the blood of the Messiah, it is particularly the Landward side of the promise that would form the logical necessity, not only for a mighty apocalyptic in-breaking that would be called, ‘the great Day of the Lord’, but also an ‘everlasting salvation’ that would guarantee the abiding and irreversible regeneration of ‘all Israel’, so that the children of wickedness will never again afflict them, as previously (2Sam 7:10; Zeph 3:19). From that day and forward, Israel will lie down in safety and none make them afraid anymore again forever (Lev 25:18-19; 26:5-6; Jer 23:6; 32:7; 33:16; 46:27-28; Eze 34:28; Hos 2:18; Mic 4:3-4; Zeph 3:13; Zech 14:11). That was the hope, final rest and peace when the people and the Land would be married finally and forever (Isa 62:4-5).

We shall see that is through the implications of what was promised concerning the Land in particular that Abraham was able to see Jesus’ day and why Joseph would give commandment concerning his bones.

The dilemma of the covenant was this: HOW WILL A PEOPLE PRONE ALWAYS TO BACKSLIDE EVER BE FITTED TO INHERIT THE LAND FOREVER, WITHOUT FURTHER THREAT OF JUDGMENT OR EXILE? It was precisely the unconditional promise of eternal inheritance of the Land that would constrain the reflective OT believer to infer the necessity of an eternal regeneration that must extend, not only to a remnant, but to all the nation.

It was Abraham’s conviction of THE LITERALNESS OF THE LAND PROMISE in particular that shut him up to the expectation of his own bodily resurrection. This is because the promise of eternal possession of the Land was not only to Abraham’s seed but to him personally as well. The Land of his sojourn would become his as an everlasting possession, not now, since he would die in a good old age, but later, after his yet unborn son’s family returns after an absence of four hundred years. This is how I believe Abraham saw Jesus’ day.

Remember, when Abraham is commanded to offer Isaac, it is after the covenant promise of Gen 15 that the nation that would proceed from the promised son would spend four hundred years in another country. How does a man die and yet inherit a literal tract of Land together with this son and his son’s progeny after an absence of four hundred years in another country? Not only so, but how else could Abraham have reckoned that such a promise could be fulfilled if the designated channel of the promise is put to death? We know that Abraham not only reckoned on the necessary resurrection of Isaac through whom the nation of promise would come. He also reckoned on the necessity of his own resurrection, since the promise of everlasting possession was to him and his seed, “to you and your seed.” This demands resurrection, not only of Isaac, but of Abraham as well.

It seems evident that Abraham conceived of Isaac’s sacrifice as the fulfillment of the promise of Gen 3:15. With the sparing of Isaac, Abraham could see ahead to the day of Him who would not be spared. Messiah’s death and resurrection would accomplish the mortal wound to the Serpent’s head. Abraham could now see that through the Coming One, the fall and its dread effects would be reversed, so that he, together with his seed, would be raised to inherit the Land forever, as only possible by an indestructible and eternal righteousness. This is Abraham’s faith in the God who raises the dead. The logic of all is the revelation of God’s own righteousness imputed to us, living and working in us and through us by the Spirit, made possible through the sacrifice of the Woman’s Seed.

Apart from this conviction of the promise of eternal inheritance of a literal land by means of bodily resurrection through the reversal of the fall by the seed of the woman, none of the promises to Abraham would have pointed so clearly to the later developments of the promise through Moses and the prophets. For example, at the outskirts of the promised Land, Moses forbids Israel to imagine that their possession of the Land is because of any righteousness of their own (Deut 9:4-6). The gift of the Land is unconditional, indeed, but the ability to retain the Land is conditional. That is why Moses declares that Israel, in its present condition, will not be able to prolong their days upon the Land, precisely because “the Lord has not given you an heart, unto this day” (Deut 29:4). But this will not always be so, because Moses looks ahead to a time of ‘great tribulation’ in the latter days (Deut 4:29-31) when Jacob will be brought to the end of his power (Deut 32:36; Dan 12:1). At that time, all of the nation will receive the circumcision of the heart (Deut 30:1-6), thus securing finally and forever the promise of everlasting possession of the Land.

The later conditions that were added did nothing to annul the unconditional certainty of the original covenant with Abraham (Gal 3:17). That God alone would secure the covenant despite human weakness is signified when God puts Abraham into a deep sleep before walking through the parted pieces alone. The covenant, though made with Abraham and his seed, will not depend on Abraham but God alone. Thus signifying that God will see that every necessary condition is fully met and fulfilled in the heirs of the promise, but by nothing in or of themselves. It will be God who works in us to do and to will of His own good pleasure. No other source of righteousness can find acceptance with God, that no flesh can glory. Thus the only thing that the later conditions cut off is the flesh, as necessarily excluded from any participation in the promise. It must all be by the Spirit received by grace through faith.

The righteous remnant within the nation was never sufficient to secure the nation from judgement and exile. On the contrary, the remnant would typically suffer with the nation. IT IS ONLY WHEN THE HABITUAL TENDENCY TO BACKSLIDE HAS BEEN CURED ONCE AND FOR ALL BY A NEW HEART AND NEW SPIRIT that all Israel, and not only a remnant, will lie down in safety with assurance of everlasting continuance in the Land. That is the logic of the covenant that all the prophets understood. This alone would satisfy the covenant promise of everlasting possession of the Land. It is the Land, understood as literal, that demands the salvation of ‘all Israel’ whereby an all righteous, “Jewish” nation (‘natural branches’) is able to preserve themselves and their children’s children on the Land without further threat of curse or exile “forever” The rule is this: TO INHERIT THE LAND FOREVER, ISRAEL MUST HAVE A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS FOREVER. This is exactly how I understand Paul’s understanding of that much disputed phrase in Ro 11:26, “and so all Israel shall be saved.” It is not a mere addendum to God’s abiding will that more Jews be saved; it is a covenant necessity! God’s Name and Word is bound up with their salvation and return to the Land. Until the time comes when every Jewish person on the earth is saved (Jer 31:34), the everlasting covenant, secured in the Savior’s blood, has not reached its full goal in the salvation of ‘all Israel’.

The revelation of the day of the Lord that secures the eternal inheritance of the Land is the climactic solution and eschatological resolution to what we might call ‘the dilemma of the covenant’. By definition, Jacob’s trouble, the ultimate travail and tribulation of Zion, is the last stage of covenant curse and discipline threatened in the law. Until then, Israel remains under covenant jeopardy so long as the disposition to backslide continues to threaten curse and exile. What will end this threat? Answer: the coming in of an ‘everlasting righteousness’ (Jer 32:40; Dan 9:24), not for a remnant only, but for the entirety of the nation, from the least to the greatest, i.e., ‘all Israel’ (Jer 31:34). As surely as Jer 31 follows chapt 30, this extravagant promise, SO OFTEN SPIRITUALIZED AS TOO FANTASTIC TO BE CONCEIVABLE FOR HISTORICAL FULFILLMENT, is HERE ON EARTH after Jacob’s trouble.

Only as the nation is saved in its entirety in a way that preserves them in abiding covenant obedience (new heart and spirit), can the chronic problem of backsliding be finally overcome. That is why the regeneration of a mere remnant can never be sufficient to guarantee an end to the curse that must always follow sin and the continued threat of judgment and exile. Unless and until ‘all Israel’ is saved eternally, even the righteous remnant is subject to the cycles of judgment and exile, as in the case of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel.

Of course, we know that the DOL is only the partial solution to the dilemma of the broken covenant. The basis for all is the mystery of the gospel, which addresses not only the future of the promise but the very foundation of God in the calling out of His elect throughout all ages by an atonement that was eternally established before creation in the counsel of the Godhead. As we said last night, this means that many enjoyed the working of the Spirit that was based retroactively on an atonement that was not yet accomplished in time but counted as accomplished from the standpoint of God’s eternal predestination. Since the mystery of the gospel was not yet revealed, this means they enjoyed the benefit of much more than they understood.

This is how the day of the Lord ends the age long ‘discipline of the covenant’. Not only does it realize an abiding righteousness whereby the Land may be inherited safely forever; it also subdues and brings under the rod iron rule of Messiah the pride and power of the gentiles, forever ending the divinely allotted ‘times of the gentiles’ in the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, the time of “their fullness” (Ro 11:12). The day of the Lord brings a final end to what we might call ‘covenant jeopardy’ since it ends the threat of the broken covenant by the gift of the Spirit and new heart that keeps it in spirit and truth forever.

This means a mere remnant is not enough, else the problem of backsliding and judgment remains. What the promise requires is a nation that is entirely holy, not in the part but the whole. This alone can guarantee abiding inheritance without fail unto children’s children (Isa 59:21), By a guaranteed preservation through the ‘everlasting righteousness’ that is made sure to all the seed, the Land is assured of abiding inheritance, forever free from covenant jeopardy, because eternal regeneration fulfills the law and secures abiding blessing, not off in an invisible heaven, but here in open demonstration through Spirit filled saints dwelling securely in the Land without further threat of invasion or any of the curses of the broken covenant, as foretold in Lev 26 & Deut 28-32.

This is how Israel’s hope developed along the lines of the inviolable covenant law of the blessing and the curse but in the context of an unconditionally certain everlasting covenant that supersedes all human weakness through the determination of God to overcome all conditionality by real and actual fulfillment in our mortal bodies through grace by the imputation of Christ’s righteousness and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Now it remains to show how and why the post-tribulational deliverance of Israel is no less the church’s hope, and how and why THE FOUNDATION OF ALL IS THE ATONING DEATH OF A TWICE COMING MESSIAH. Then there are the questions that rise concerning the new covenant believer’s relation to the law and how Israel’s unique and abiding election to millennial headship over the nations agrees with the revelation of the one new man, etc. The answer to these questions will materially affect how we conceive of the church’s role towards Israel presently and in Israel's future time of trouble.

(By Reggie Kelly - Oct 2104)


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David Winter

 2021/5/6 16:02Profile
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 136


 Re:

I'm currently working on a NIV - a new Israel version ;)
This is just a brief summary, I'm still working on some details

Part of the covenant that God made with Abraham is that
"all peoples on earth will be blessed "
Abraham means “father of a multitude”
From the beginning God had the whole world in mind.

"Israel" started with Jacob - for a Purpose
“Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:5-6
They are called to display who Yahweh is to all the nations, so that all would come to know and worship the one true God.
Yet God’s people continually failed at their task by worshiping other gods and participating in injustice and oppression

Then Jesus came.
God chose Israel and ultimately Jesus and the true Church to extend his love to all the world !
That's why Peter also wrote:
"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 1 Peter 2:9

"Israel" fell apart soon after King David.
What is their future ?
A time is coming when God "will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more " Jeremiah 31: 31–34

To "restore" them I believe will mean that God will restore the Relationship with them as He planed it from the beginning. There will be judgement, forgiveness and restoration.
But there will ultimately only be One Kingdom with Jesus as King of Kings !

If we think it is about a piece of land on this old planet and who will get it then we completely miss the point.
We fail to see it is about God, His mercy, His judgement and His unfailing love.
It is not about me and what I can get out of it !
God has already worked out the future.
His plan cannot and will not fail. Most of our opinions are meaningless.We need to learn and better understand what "Amazing Grace..." means

Paul wrote: ...but will have complete boldness so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Phil 1:20,21
To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,Eph 3:8

You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ. 1 Cor 11:1

Blessings

 2021/5/6 16:55Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855
Australia

 Re:


Hi Christopher,

Is Israel in Rom.9:6-8, to you, the earthly nation of Israel or the church?

Do you object to the terms “new Israel” or “true Israel”?

I will reply to all points in your posts when time permits.



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Jade

 2021/5/7 0:02Profile
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855
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 Re:

Hi Markus,

Agree.

The restoration Paul preached was the restoration of mankind (Jews and Gentiles) from eternal death to eternal life in Christ, and, the restoration of all mankind from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light of God’s beloved Son.

The land Paul preached was heavenly places in Christ Jesus and the heavenly Mount Zion and heavenly Jerusalem.

The blessings Paul preached were spiritual blessings in Christ.

The hope and riches and glory Paul preached was “Christ in you, the hope of glory” (Col. 1:27).

The hope of Israel Paul preached clashed with the expectations of the Jews they severely persecuted him and arrested him.


SCRIPTURE:

Acts 28:20 –
"………for I am wearing this chain for the sake of the hope of Israel."

Acts 26:6-8 –
And now I am standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers; the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day. And for this hope, O King, I am being accused by Jews. Why is it considered incredible among you people if God does raise the dead?

Acts 26:15-23 –
“And I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.’
“So, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision, but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
For this reason some Jews seized me in the temple and tried to put me to death. So, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place; that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

Acts 13:32-33 –
And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’

Heb. 12:22 –
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,

Eph. 1:20, 2:6 –
which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places………and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Eph. 1:3 –
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Heb. 11:10, 16 –
for he (Abraham) was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God………But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God for He has prepared a city for them.

Blessings


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Jade

 2021/5/7 0:04Profile
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Joined: 2003/11/23
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 Re:

Hi BranchinVINE,

You're asking a couple of questions, but I'm not sure if the reason is related to anything that I wrote earlier -- whether by contention, a desire for clarity or something else. However, let me address your questions.

Quote:

Is Israel in Rom.9:6-8, to you, the earthly nation of Israel or the church?



"Earthly nation:" This term is somewhat puzzling because it can mean several things. A nation can be as simple as a people (as in the nation of Jews) or the group within an established border that is governed by accepted leadership.

However, I am guessing that you're referring to the "nation" of Israel -- a country that was re-founded in 1948. By contrast, you're referring to the "church" -- as in the true body of believers around the world.

If so, I would look at the passage that you're referring to:
Quote:

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants shall be named.”

8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Romans 9:6-8 (NASB)



I think that Paul addressed this rather clearly in verses 1 through 5 as well as 8 through the rest of the chapter (and even after that in the Book of Romans).

Paul is making a definitive distinction between the original COVENANT with Abraham and the subsequent (Covenant) Law of Moses. The Covenant with Abraham was established by FAITH. Abraham believed the LORD and it was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6).

Paul contrasts this "faith" with the idea that "works" (by obedience to the Law of Moses) would somehow bring about righteousness or salvation. He stated that the children of Israel had unsuccessfully pursued the law as the way of righteousness (Romans 9:30-32).

The original Covenant that God made was not established by works but by faith. Believing the LORD is necessary to be a, well, believer (and a child of God).

This does not mean that the physical portion of the Covenant between God and Abraham was void. God made a promise that Abraham would have descendants and that they would have land. There were no conditions for this promise in Genesis 15.

However, this did not mean that the children of Abraham had an eternal salvation guarantee. It simply meant that God promised Abraham that he would have many descendants AND that those descendants would be given the land that God promised.

Again, the understanding that the Covenant with Abraham was different from the "Covenant Law of Moses" is very important in all of this. In all of this, I believe that Paul is emphasizing the importance from the very beginning that God sought FAITH and that the Covenant itself was established because of it.

Because of faith, believers are grafted into the Olive Tree (the initial Covenant). That Covenant -- established by faith -- did not disappear because it was irrevocable (Romans 11:25-29). At the same time, Paul was pointing out that righteousness is by FAITH and cannot be achieved or obtained by works (particularly those attempts to fulfill the Law of Moses).

Quote:

Do you object to the terms “new Israel” or “true Israel”?



To be clear: I'm not sure about these terms. Is there a particular passage that you're referring to? I try to stray away from theological semantics used for the purposes of categorizing ideological persuasion.

Instead, I will confidently say that believers are grafted into the tree.


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Christopher

 2021/5/7 3:14Profile
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 Re:


Hi Christopher,

I just wanted to know your position on this matter.

Blessings.


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Jade

 2021/5/7 6:45Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2401


 Re:

/I'm currently working on a NIV - a new Israel version ;)
This is just a brief summary, I'm still working on some details/

NIV - new Israel version

???

/If we think it is about a piece of land on this old planet and who will get it then we completely miss the point./

Not necessarily. After all, we're not talking about a piece of land on this old planet. We are talking about a sanctified and set apart piece of land God promised to Abraham and his descendants. All on a renewed earth from which the curse has been lifted - "And that He might send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the restoration of all things, which God has spoken of by the mouth of all His holy prophets, since the world began (Acts 3:20). This restoration will encompass many things but it will include the renewal of the earth at Christ's second coming. Romans 8:21 - the creation itself will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Since the kingdom of God will eventually cover the EARTH, I don't believe God necessarily sees the earth as an inferior realm as much of the western mind set in the church does. There is nothing unholy about LAND.

/There will be judgement, forgiveness and restoration./

Many of the prophets also included an eventual restoration to the land, after the people's restoration to God which can only be done through faith in Christ's atoning work which they eventually will embrace.

/We fail to see it is about God, His mercy, His judgement and His unfailing love.
It is not about me and what I can get out of it!/

The calling and history of Israel, from beginning to end, is the greatest story of all of God, His mercy, His judgment and His unfailing love. It's a historical object lesson set forth for all the world to see. God will eventually have a contrite and humble Israel (Zephaniah 3:12-13). They will then have realized it is all about God and His purposes.






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David Winter

 2021/5/7 12:48Profile
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Posts: 2401


 Re: If the word Isarel is a NT word for the church

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written; (Romans 11;26)

If Israel were a synonym for the Church, meaning those who are saved, that statement would be ridiculous. Paul would be saying that all those who are saved will be saved. Such an interpretation must therefore be rejected.

Why shouldn't it be the same with prophecy? If prophecy refers to Israel, then why not let it mean Israel?


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David Winter

 2021/5/7 14:07Profile
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 Re:

Isn’t there going to be a new heavens and new earth?

I’m so confused.

Are you saying that when God creates the new earth there is going to be a literal land of Israel/Canaan/ whatever you want to call it like there is now?

If so how can that be considered “new?”


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Todd

 2021/5/7 14:10Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2401


 Re:

You may be confused by thinking that creation immediately goes to the eternal state and a new heavens and earth at Christ's second coming. I am not a pre-trib believer, but as a premill believer I see a thousand year interval of time before this when Christ rules over the earth from a renewed Jerusalem. Some say the thousand years is mentioned only once in the Bible, so it can't be that important. Actually, this is wrong because the thousand years are mentioned six times, not once. You are correct when you say the word "forever" may mean at times a long unspecified period of time. That is true, but the term thousand years gives us a specificity of time, not just a general sense.

I believe TMK, that if we go immediately to the eternal state then God never had a complete victory in history. History as we know it will have ended in a great tribulation of destruction and chaos and God never really was able to bring Israel into a lasting inheritance as He promised. He brought them in but they never were able to keep and abide in the land. I believe God will clean up the scene of the crime so to speak, as during the millennium He will clean up history and make a substantial difference in this same human history. The millennium is not just a specified period of time. I believe it will be a thousand year demonstration in the eyes of the nations of God's covenant faithfulness and His transforming power. All the nations will see and know that God has done this - IN HUMAN HISTORY. During which time there will be a renewed earth.

But if you believe Israel has been replaced and has no future in God's plan, then all of this is likely much ado about nothing. I don't believe it to be so.

See "The Constraining Nature of the Land Promises" I posted above. That may help you understand my point of view.

Thank you and blessings.


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David Winter

 2021/5/7 15:16Profile





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