SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : America, the superpower

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5789
NC, USA

 Re:

//So if these Godly men under OC were saved by looking on to coming of Christ then what makes us not to believe that a law abiding and God fearing Jew today can be saved by looking into the Christ who came even though he directly does not confess Jesus? //

Sree, I generally agree with your thoughts or at least don’t vehemently disagree, but your statement above is quite startling in light of Paul’s teaching on the matter.


_________________
Todd

 2021/5/3 19:30Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 822
Australia

 Re: Sree


Gal. 3:16-19 –
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
WHY THE LAW THEN? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, UNTIL the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

v.22-24 –
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.


_________________
Jade

 2021/5/4 6:27Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1907


 Re:

Quote:

WHY THE LAW THEN? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, UNTIL the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.



I think what you mean here is Law was given only until CHrist was revealed. Law is a tutor to lead us to Christ.

But this does not mean God has abolished the law. These verses only talk about a believer in relation to Law not in general Law being abolished.

Romans 7:4 - 4Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

It is clear that only a believer in relation to Law to which he was married to has died to be freed from law but Law did not die or was abolished.

Like the verses you quoted God uses OC to lead people to Christ for spiritual blessing but if they are unwilling to come to Christ then God still honors OC and blesses them physically.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/5/4 7:29Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 822
Australia

 Re: Sree

Quote:
but if they are unwilling to come to Christ then God still honors OC and blesses them physically.



Where in scripture is that written??


Acts 17:30 –
………God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Acts 24:47 –
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Gal. 4:30 –
Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”


ADD:
The Old Covenant became obsolete and disappeared in AD 70 when the temple was destroyed and all the priests killed and Old Covenant worship is no longer possible.


_________________
Jade

 2021/5/4 8:11Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1907


 Re:

Quote:

Where in scripture is that written??




The other way round, I want scriptural proof from you. Old Testament is full of promises for Israel. For those who keep the laws. For example Deuteronomy 30 is full of God's blessing when Israel obeys God's laws. All these blessings are earthly blessing. Not spiritual.

Now does God still bless those who are under OC with physical blessing? If you believe it is not so then you need to provide a scripture to prove that God will no longer honor his promise to Israel.

I am not challenging you, I personally feel that this view of OC being abolished is just a teaching that is widely accepted without proper investigation. If there is a clear backing of scripture then I am willing to accept it. I am not calling it wrong, I am just asking how people derived this belief.

Quote:

The Old Covenant became obsolete and disappeared in AD 70 when the temple was destroyed and all the priests killed and Old Covenant worship is no longer possible.




The temple was also destroyed by Babylonians during the exile of Jews. Did God obsolete Old Covenant that time as well because there was no more temple or Old Covenant worship? So destruction of temple is not a sign of God giving up his covenant. Again what is the scriptural proof of this 70AD?

Again you might be right, I am not denying it. I am just looking for sound scripture or logical explanation for this belief that Old Covenant is abolished. Please do not take it personal.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/5/4 19:01Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2398


 Re: Horner's explanation of the term Anti-Judaism

Some posters expressed a consternation that Barry Horner used this term as part of the subtitle of his book "Future Israel" and in various places in the book. His explanation follows:

"Concerning terminology, a word of explanation is necessary. Instead of the common emotive term of anti-Semitism" being employed, which is often qualified as either racial or theological, the more specific "anti-Judaism" is mainly used. Nevertheless, even anti-Judaism needs explication. Here it is intended to refer to classic anti-Judaism, which involves opposition to the biblical legacy of Torah mediated through Abraham and Moses rather than opposition to the Rabbinic and Talmudic accretions that Jesus Christ so vigorously opposed, though doubtless some overlap will nevertheless be involved. The use of "anti-Zionism" will more narrowly focus on opposition to the recent establishment of the nation of modern Israel. With regard to the Augustinian legacy of Israel's displacement by the Christian church as the new spiritual Israel, the accepted terms of "replacement theology" and "supercessionism" will be used interchangeably. Some authors vigorously renounce association with these designations, and often attempt to argue against their validity. Nevertheless, for all such verbal ducking and weaving by those who are supercessionists, they are unable to obscure obvious identification with the same essential anti-Judaic spirit that substitutes concepts such as "progression," "transference," and "fulfillment."

"In a nutshell then, the issue here concerns whether Israel, incorporating individuality, nationality, and territory, has a future according to the mind of Abraham's God."

("Future Israel" - Personal Introduction, pg 19-20, by Barry Horner)


_________________
David Winter

 2021/5/4 22:48Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 251


 Re:

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, and from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed." Revelation 7:4-8

We would be at disagreement on the turn out/end result of the above scripture depending on our end time views, but I assure you the apostle John did say this. However concerning, this futuristic view in discussion. I'm with all respect, not seeing it's impact on us here and now. We sincerely have a ton to deal with right now, and I'm just not seeing the urgency you are respectfully.


_________________
William

 2021/5/5 2:45Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 822
Australia

 Re:

Hi Sree,

Quote:
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.



The Book of Hebrews was written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Old Covenant worship was still existing as the temple was still standing and there were still the High Priest and priests to serve as mediators of the Old Covenant.

When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, these happened:

(1) The temple was destroyed as the Lord Jesus predicted in Matt. 24:1-2.
(2) All the priests and High Priest were killed, and the mediators of the Old Covenant were wiped out.

With the temple and the priests gone, can the Old Covenant remain? Certainly not.

From 70 AD to this present day, without the temple and the priests, Old Covenant worship is NO LONGER POSSIBLE. How then can God honor the OC and bless anyone physically?



Quote:
The temple was also destroyed by Babylonians during the exile of Jews. Did God obsolete Old Covenant that time as well because there was no more temple or Old Covenant worship? So destruction of temple is not a sign of God giving up his covenant.



It was the coming of the New Covenant that made the Old Covenant obsolete. The destruction of the temple sealed its fate.

The New Covenant was ushered in by the death and resurrection of Christ.

In the period from the return from the Babylonian captivity to the death and resurrection of Christ, the New Covenant was not yet instituted, so the Old Covenant remained.


Blessings


_________________
Jade

 2021/5/5 5:16Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 822
Australia

 Re:

Hi William,

Yes, the apostle John did say that.

The Book of Revelation is highly symbolic.

How about this interpretation:

New Israel of God started with the remnant of old Israel. This was a very small number that could be counted (Rev. 7:4-8).

After that, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and tribes and peoples and tongues, was added to the new Israel of God (Rev. 7:9-10).

Blessings


_________________
Jade

 2021/5/5 5:23Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2398


 Re: Where does the term "new Israel" appear in the New Testament?

"To recover the truth about the identity of Israel it is necessary to go back to the actual text of the New Testament and see how the apostles used the term Israel. This is the only legitimate basis for a scripturally accurate use of this term. Ever since the canon of Scripture was closed, no subsequent writer or preacher has been authorized to change the usage established by the New Testament writers. Any writer or preacher who introduces a different application of the term Israel forfeits the right to claim scriptural authority for what he or she has to say about Israel."

"I have discovered seventy-nine instances in the New Testament where the words Israel or Israelite occur. After examining them all, I conclude that the apostles never used Israel as a synonym for the church."

"Nor does the phrase "new Israel" occur anywhere in the New Testament. Preachers who use that phrase should take care to define their use of it. They should also state it is not found in the Bible."

(From "Prophetic Destinies" - by Derek Prince. Copyright 1992. Ch 1 - "The Destiny of Israel and the Church," pg 15)


_________________
David Winter

 2021/5/5 8:21Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy