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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

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BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 804
Australia

 Re:

Hi Nigel,

Quote:
I don't believe a person can be filled slowly or gradually; every time the Bible addresses this topic it is always a sudden thing.



Christian life is a growth from babes to mature sons of God (1 Pet. 2:2, Heb. 5:13, Eph. 4:13-16).

A mature man in Christ is one who is filled with the fullness of Christ (Eph. 4:13).

All fullness of God dwells in Christ (Col. 2:9) and we are filled up to all the fullness of God when Christ dwells in our hearts THROUGH FAITH (Eph. 3:17-19).

We are not filled up to the fullness of Christ all at once. FAITH GROWS.

2 Thess. 1:3 –
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, BECAUSE YOUR FAITH GROWS EXCEEDINGLY, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other,


The supreme work of the Holy Spirit in us is to make Christ in us a reality.

John 14:20 –
In that day (comment: the day the Holy Spirit comes to live in us) you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

We are NOT filled with the fullness of Christ all at once.

Eph. 4:13 –
“UNTIL we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.”


The supreme work of the Holy Spirit is to form Christ in us and fill us with the glory of Christ.

We are not transformed into the image of Christ all at once.

2 Cor. 3:18 –
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image FROM GLORY TO GLORY, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.



We are EITHER filled with self and flesh OR filled with Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Can anyone say that they were TOTALLY emptied of all self and flesh and FULLY filled with Christ and the Holy Spirit SUDDENLY?

Definitely not me. I press on to gain Christ (Phil. 3:7-14) in the full assurance that the Holy Spirit is in me.

Blessings


_________________
Jade

 2021/2/25 6:55Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1171
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hello Jade,

you are confusing the baptism of the Holy Spirit with sanctification. These are 2 different things.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a reward for a perfect Christian life, it is not a state of maturity we achieve.

It is for babes in Christ, a basic step that completes our conversion - not our salvation. It was the normative step in the early church that after they repented towards the Father, believed in the Son, and were baptised by immersion in water they would receive the baptism of Jesus, with is the the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Conversion is just the beginning and sanctification is a work that only the Holy Spirit can do and it goes on for our whole time on earth. For this we need the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it is not an option. It is not for an elite group, but for every saint.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit does not automatically make us super-holy, but it provides the basics for holy living and fruit-bearing.
The Corinthians had the baptism of the Holy Spirit by and large, as Paul attested it, but they were lazy and backslidden, because they were messed up by false teachers. So Paul had to do a lot of work and managed to lead them to repentance.

Sanctification puts us under obligation to apply the scriputures to our life and the Holy Spirit will help us mightily if we only allow him.

 2021/2/25 12:16Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 249


 Re:

“The baptism of the Holy Spirit does not automatically make us super-holy, but it provides the basics for holy living and fruit-bearing.” ministering amongst our brethren and proclaiming Jesus to the unsaved through the Spirits empowering! Thank you brother. I was praying, seeing if I should respond.

Jade you are right concerning maturity in Christ it is a lifetime endeavor! Even the apostle Paul said he had not reached his goal yet in maturity.

Power to minister comes from the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit’s empowering, we have powerless preachers, preaching powerless messages, creating powerless people through out Christendom, with little results accomplished in the pulpit, and within their own lives.

Added, After Baptism in the Spirit, it is as we surrender to the Holy Spirit that Gods power goes forth. God’s direction, God’s will, God’s work. It’s never us, it is all Him. Surrender, surrender, surrender.


_________________
William

 2021/2/25 12:34Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 97


 Re:

I think we need to be a bit careful here that we don't get too dogmatic, that could be a bit misleading
Here is something about Corrie ten Boom, some of you might have heard it already.
I believe there were several factors that enabled her to get through such difficult times.

"If you are reproached for being Christ’s followers, that is a great privilege, for you can be sure that God’s Spirit of glory is resting upon you.” Closing her Bible, Corrie proceeded to relate a conversation that took place between her and her father when she was a little girl.
“Daddy,” she had said one day, “I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.”
“Tell me,” her father wisely responded, “when you take a train trip from Haarlem to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before?”
“No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train.”
“That is right,” he replied, “and so it is with God’s strength. Our wise Father in heaven knows when you are going to need things too. Today you do not need the strength to be a martyr. But as soon as you are called upon for the honor of facing death for Jesus, He will supply the strength you need—just in time.”

For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
Romans 11:36

 2021/2/25 15:59Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 804
Australia

 Re:



Hi Narrowpath,

2 Thess. 2:13-14 (Young’s Literal Translation) –
And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, to which He did call you through our good news, to the acquiring of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ;


Quote:
you are confusing the baptism of the Holy Spirit with sanctification. These are 2 different things.



The baptism (immersion) of the Holy Spirit and sanctification are inextricably intertwined. The more immersed we are in the Holy Spirit, the less immersed we will be in flesh, and the more sanctified we will be.

Let us understand what “baptism” is.

The word “baptize” is simply transliterated from the Greek word “baptizo” in our English Bibles. It is not translated.

What does the Greek word “baptizo” mean?

Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary gives this definition:

“Baptizo, ‘to baptize,’ primarily a frequentative form of bapto, ‘to dip,’ was used among the Greeks to signify the dyeing of a garment, or the drawing of water by dipping a vessel into another, etc. Plutarchus uses it of the drawing wine by dipping the cup into the bowl.”

My comment:

In the dyeing of the garment:
(1) The garment is immersed in the dye
(2) The dye saturates (or fills) the garment and the garment loses its own colour and takes on the colour of the dye.

In the drawing of wine by dipping the cup into the bowl:
(1) The cup is immersed in the wine in the bowl
(2) The wine in the bowl fills the cup. The EMPTY cup is filled with the wine.


Therefore, when we are “baptized” with the Holy Spirit:

(1)
We are immersed in the Holy Spirit.

“For in him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28).

(2)
The Holy Spirit fills us.

We are God’s temple in which the Holy Spirit lives (1 Cor. 3:16).
The Holy Spirit is in us as a “well of water springing up to eternal life” (John 4:14).
The Holy Spirit shall flow like rivers of living water from our innermost being (John 7:38-39).
We are joined to the Lord and is one spirit with Him (1 Cor. 6:17).

The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ.

John 16:14 –
He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Therefore, when the Holy Spirit fills us, we will lose our “old man” and become the “new man” in Christ. As the garment takes on the colour of the dye in which it is immersed, we will be conformed to the image of Christ.

The baptism (immersion) in Jesus’ name is simply this to me: “you in Me, and I in you (John 14:20)”. The baptism (immersion) in the Holy Spirit makes the baptism (immersion) in Jesus’ name a reality in us.

Filling also needs emptying. The measure of the Holy Spirit we can have in us is also dependent on how much we have emptied ourselves of self/flesh and the desires of the world.

We are transformed into the image of Christ not all at once but from glory to glory (2 Cor. 3:18). And like the garment that is immersed in the dye, the measure in we are conformed to the image of Christ will be the same measure in which we are immersed (baptized) in the Holy Spirit.

Sree’s illustration is appropriate.

First, “ankle-deep”, then “knee-deep”, then “waist-deep”, and finally “a river that could not be forded” (Ezek. 47).


Quote:
Sanctification puts us under obligation to apply the scriptures to our life and the Holy Spirit will help us mightily if we only allow him.



I don’t agree that “the Holy Spirit will help us mightily”. We must give up both our carnal and religious self and surrender totally to the Holy Spirit to work in us. Sanctification is a complete work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in front of us to lead, not behind us to push us and help us.

Christ in us is our sanctification and this is made a reality in us by our immersion (baptism) in the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 1:30 –
But of Him YOU ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO BECAME FOR US wisdom from God—and righteousness AND SANCTIFICATION and redemption—

Someone said:
“He is most holy who has most of Christ within, and joys most fully in the finished work,”

I agree.



I would also like to ask you:
Is the Holy Spirit a Person or just a Power to you?


Blessings



_________________
Jade

 2021/2/25 22:11Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 804
Australia

 Re:


Thank you, William.

Just a question:

Quote:
Power to minister comes from the baptism in the Holy Spirit.



Is this the indwelling Holy Spirit?


Blessings


_________________
Jade

 2021/2/25 22:23Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 249


 Re:

Jade I enjoyed reading all this! I believe you already know my answer based on previous posts sister. Also if I sounded dogmatic brother it was unintentional. I’m certain there are differences in most of our walks concerning this. The way God led me could be quite different then the way he leads you!

I don’t have the correct terminology, or terms like many of you sorry. So I’ve really got to watch my wording! However I do want everyone to know intimately God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and each of us to have plenty of oil for the days ahead.

Blessings


_________________
William

 2021/2/26 0:08Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 97


 Re:

I enjoy reading the different posts, lots of good contributions !
In my post I was just trying to add a bit of balance to the overall discussion, not about specific comments.

Billy, I appreciate your contributions, glad you share some testimonies and your zeal for the Lord !

Blessings
Markus

 2021/2/26 1:38Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 804
Australia

 Re:


Hi William,

Quote:
However I do want everyone to know intimately God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and each of us to have plenty of oil for the days ahead.



Amen.



Oh Christ, He is the fountain,
The deep, sweet well of love;
The streams on earth I’ve tasted,
More deep I’ll drink above.
-- A. R. Cousin


_________________
Jade

 2021/2/26 2:27Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1894


 Re:

Boldness to be a living witness of Christ and actually facing the persecution are 2 different things.

When I came to Christ from a Hindu faith, I did not have any courage to tell my friends and family that I am a Christian. I used to hide it from my friends that I am going to Church on Sundays. But when God baptized me with his Holy Spirit, I was no longer hiding my faith. I was an open Christian. I got boldness to witness Christ.

But when I faced persecution, I had to still trust God to give me utterance. For example there was one particular instance in which I was surrounded by Hindu Priests who were trying to brain wash me and ridicule me for leaving my Hindu faith. Their point was it is a great thing to be born in a Hindu priestly line. To give up that privilege for anything is stupidity. In situations like this I was totally unprepared and sought God for grace.

One of my coworkers in Christ had this testimony. When he came to Christ from his Hindu faith, he used to cover the bible with a plastic paper so that no one knew he was carrying a Bible with him. But when he received the Baptism of Holy Spirit, he threw the plastic paper and carried it openly. He still needed utterance from God when people questioned him.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/2/26 10:11Profile





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