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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Shoud Christians fight for abortion laws?

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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1508
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Staff

Yes of course we want abortion to be illegal and yes of course we pray for godly representation in all aspects of governance... yet that is not our only or even our primary battleground-

Abortion is less of a problem and more of a symptom of fatherless (unmarried) homes.... this is a spiritual issue more than a legal one and that’s where our weapons are most effective:)

In the grand scheme of things, our attention and focus should be primarily the spiritual (behind the scenes) battle. Which is not to say we forgo participation in every avenue the Lord grants us opportunity, including the social, cultural, judicial and political spheres tho we can and should influence them from a primarily spiritual disposition. If we seek the Lord for light on how and when to do so, He will give it 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2021/2/12 14:13Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1508
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: sister Sandra

Yes ma’am and it will most likely get worse before it gets better... tho we who are sober can and should pray... interceding for those whom have strayed.

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


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Fletcher

 2021/2/12 14:17Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1894


 Re:

Hi JFW,
We can do both the primary and the secondary .

my qoute from earlier

"We can do both at the same time!"

Your qoute

"Yes of course we want abortion to be illegal and yes of course we pray for godly representation in all aspects of governance... yet that is not our only or even our primary battleground-"

Also we cant complain when Christians have roles in governance who are doing the right things,we should be praying for them .
The heading of the post put another way is "should we forgo participation in all avenues?"
and the answer in my opinion is, no we should not forgo participation in all avenues.

urs staff

 2021/2/12 15:25Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1878


 Re:

Quote:


Abortion is less of a problem and more of a symptom of fatherless (unmarried) homes.... this is a spiritual issue more than a legal one and that’s where our weapons are most effective:)

In the grand scheme of things, our attention and focus should be primarily the spiritual (behind the scenes) battle.



I agree our war is spiritual not against flesh and blood. I have no problem with the Church praying against abortion. Or a group from the Church standing infront of abortion clinics with verses.

Quote:

Which is not to say we forgo participation in every avenue the Lord grants us opportunity, including the social, cultural, judicial and political spheres tho we can and should influence them from a primarily spiritual disposition. If we seek the Lord for light on how and when to do so, He will give it



This is where I disagree. If we fight using politics as a weapon then our weapon is no longer spiritual. If we fight to introduce laws against unconverted then we are fighting against flesh and blood not against spiritual.

Bible does not tell us to have our primary focus on spiritual fight and secondary focus against flesh and blood. Our fight is ONLY against spiritual forces. We do not fight against flesh and blood at all. Bible is so clear here (EPh 6:12).

Also Bible does not say use spiritual weapons primarily and also fleshly weapon (politics) as secondary weapon! Our weapons are only spiritual (2 Cor 10:4).

My primary point in this thread is the Church has failed in spiritual fight and has no spiritual weapons. Hence it is trying to fight against flesh and blood (abortion laws) using carnal weapons (Politics and political support). There is no partnership between light and darkness. I do not see Jesus or the Apostles doing anything with politics to advance God's kingdom or bring his will on this earth. It is because they did not fight with flesh and blood nor had carnal weapons.


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Sreeram

 2021/2/12 15:51Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1508
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Sree

Do you think Christians should avoid seeking political offices or appointments?
Also if a politician comes to faith in Christ while occupying office, are you suggesting they should recuse themselves and seek employment outside the political arena?


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Fletcher

 2021/2/12 16:12Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2113


 Re: Thy Kingdom Come Thy will be done on Earth...


"I do not see Jesus or the Apostles doing anything with politics to advance God's kingdom or bring his will on this earth."

Then again...there was no vote, no constitution, or any other governing documents as we have. They didn't live in America in the 21st century, nor did they have a history of 250 years as we do of the freedom of worship and of speech.

When your worldview limits God to certain spheres in His world and created order you tend to leave significant life decisions to the society or the culture to dominate and manage. BAD THEOLOGY!

"This is my Father's world"
https://youtu.be/Kyg9qqiiMXw

 2021/2/12 16:42Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1878


 Re:

Quote:

Do you think Christians should avoid seeking political offices or appointments?
Also if a politician comes to faith in Christ while occupying office, are you suggesting they should recuse themselves and seek employment outside the political arena?




I do not find any connection between your question and our point of discussion. In new covenant each one can decide whether they can be a good Christian following a profession of their choice. I work in computers, but if I cannot keep my internet usage clean then it is better for me to quit my job. Every profession is equally dangerous.

Even if there can be a strong Christian in politics it does not mean we as Christians can put our trust in politics to fight against evil. It is like saying there can be God fearing judge so let me take my brother to court! We know the scripture says not to take a brother to court instead trust the Church to solve the disputes.


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Sreeram

 2021/2/12 16:47Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1878


 Re:

Quote:

Then again...there was no vote, no constitution, or any other governing documents as we have. They didn't live in America in the 21st century, nor did they have a history of 250 years as we do of the freedom of worship and of speech.

When your worldview limits God to certain spheres in His world and created order you tend to leave significant life decisions to the society or the culture to dominate and manage. BAD THEOLOGY!



I assume you have a genuine question. Instead of judging my theology, if you have asked a question like how Fetcher is doing here then we can have meaningful discussion. Acting smart and jumping ahead of a discussion will not result in fruitful discussion.

Agreed, Jesus nor the apostles lived under democracy. But if you see under Old Covenant, the Godly judges and kings tried to save Israel from its captivity. But Jesus nor the Apostles did anything to free Israel from Romans. Nor did Jesus preach anything to rebel against the Roman oppression. He clearly distanced himself from the political situation of Israel. Even when a leader of Pharisee came to see him, he did not try to use him to influence some reformation in the Pharisees. Instead he clearly asked him to be born again (John 3).

I have said so many times that I am not against Christians voting or having political views. But putting our trust in politicians and political parties to bring some laws in our nation, using it as a weapon to bring some imaginary heavenly kingdom etc. are not Biblical.


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Sreeram

 2021/2/12 16:59Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2777
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

In response to the original question;

It is good and right that we should say when something is wrong.
It is good and right to stand against injustice.
It is good and right to advocate for the innocent.
We should whole-heartedly disagree with what we see is wrong in our government and society, and whole-heartedly agree with what is good.

But the word of caution in this is that we must watch our mouths when it comes to cursing men who are made in the image of God.


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Ron Halverson

 2021/2/12 17:21Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1508
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:


I wrote;
Do you think Christians should avoid seeking political offices or appointments?
Also if a politician comes to faith in Christ while occupying office, are you suggesting they should recuse themselves and seek employment outside the political arena?

Sree wrote;

I do not find any connection between your question and our point of discussion.

Sree also wrote;

This is where I disagree. If we fight using politics as a weapon then our weapon is no longer spiritual. If we fight to introduce laws against unconverted then we are fighting against flesh and blood not against spiritual.

This ☝🏼statement is why I asked that question ...
now can you see how it’s connected to not only this discussion but your voluntary statements....

Much like in the other thread we were discussing, you tend to make suggestive remarks and when pressed about them you sometimes defer or just ignore it entirely... that’s your prerogative but in all honesty, if not changed, it will over time weaken your credibility-




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Fletcher

 2021/2/12 18:56Profile





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