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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1378
Lakeland FL

 Re:

If I can make a few points
1.Just because we have an infestation of false prophets doesnt mean prophesy is wrong both forthtelling and foretelling .

******It does mean more people are open to hearing false prophets and not test prophesy. Do you know of any true prophets today? I do not.

2 False Prophets in the past,present and future or any charlatan will attach themselves to the part of the Church that believes in Spiritual gifts because it would benefit them nothing if they didnt as those believers are the only ones they can exploit.Importantly though it does not mean that prophesy is wrong .

*******Again, can you name any true prophets today. I cannot.

3The New Testament clearly states that the purpose of Prophesy is to Exhort,Comfort and Console the Church and if we do not have Prophesy well the consequences are we cant Exhort,Comfort and Console the body in such a direct way from the throne of God.

*******The NT also says that the church was established on the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets. THis doesn't suggest continuing Apostles or prophets. Even Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures and this was said after being on the mountain with Jesus and hearing the voice of the Father. He pointed back to the scriptures.


4 When exposing false prophets we have to be careful because alot of these people are real Christians who we will see in heaven.However this issue must be dealt with as it is giving God a bad name,I do believe that strongly too.

*********A false prophet is not a real christian. A real Christian knows the voice of Jesus and that doesn't have to be as a prophet. Can you name anyone in the OT who were of God and made false prophecy? False prophecy is taking the Name of the Lord in vain and that is a serious offense.


5 Importantly if Trump wins in the end it doesnt mean all the people that prophesied or said he would are true prophets either

**********Those who prophesied Trump to win.....and if Trump does win it doesn't mean they are Christians. Look at the doctrine that these so called prophets teach. None of it is orthodox. They have people going after other goes while keeping the Name of Jesus in there somewhere.


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John

 2021/1/8 7:26Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1534
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Prophets of Trump

Question to all:
Who here on SI doesn’t hear from the Lord directly (personally) ?


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Fletcher

 2021/1/8 8:11Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1378
Lakeland FL

 Re:

"Question to all:
Who here on SI doesn’t hear from the Lord directly (personally) ?"

Are you asking about personal revelation? A voice? A vision type of thing?

I hear from God via the Word. Meaning, as I go about my business I find the Word coming to my mind when in certain situations and I will act accordingly.


5 years ago I had an illumination/revelation happen to me that changed the path I was on. I was out running and toward the end a voice spoke the word 'Seduction' to me and it started me. Then a mental image of pentecostal church and Jehovah's Witnesses came up and in an impression what I recognized was there is a part of the church that is spreading false doctrine and operating in false signs and wonders and there is a 'church' that calls itself the church and is false through and through............. this drove me to the bible and scriptures about the seduction of the soul were highlighted to me. As a result of this I learned to understand sermons better and I learned to study the bible more indepth.

Not even a year after this JW's came to my door and so began dialogue to this day. I also began to understand where the pentecostal and charismatic church went wrong and so I stay away from it. I Know that will be an issue with some. I was a part of the Assemblies of God for a decade. I didn't go looking for that illunination.


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John

 2021/1/8 9:28Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Deadn,
I will pick out the most important point first which if I can some up as does Prophesy exist in the new testament church .....

Peters words do not negate Pauls words ,just adds to them.Paul clearly is talking about the gifts and that Prophesy is a greater gift and why it is so good.He is also clearly talking about an utterance not the written word which Peter is talking about.We cannot rip out New Testament scripture as if it doesnt exist.Paul says Prophesy is hugely important .Lets not rob Paul to pay Peter.Peter is not negating Pauls scriptures.So prophesy remains

1 Cor 14
2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.…
Peter did not say prophetic utterance is not nessacary but that scriptural prophesy is sure because it has already come to pass or alot of it.

I Qouted

The New Testament clearly states that the purpose of Prophesy is to Exhort,Comfort and Console the Church and if we do not have Prophesy well the consequences are we cant Exhort,Comfort and Console the body in such a direct way from the throne of God.
You Qouted

*******The NT also says that the church was established on the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets. THis doesn't suggest continuing Apostles or prophets. Even Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures and this was said after being on the mountain with Jesus and hearing the voice of the Father. He pointed back to the scriptures

ON APOSTLES AND PROPHETS IN THE CHURCH.

I do not believe we have Apostles like the 12 Apostles or Paul in the present day Church .However since the bible is cyrstal clear that all the 12 Apostles come from John The Baptist (and not Jesus)who came in the Spirit of Elijah I believe that Apostles will be restored to the Church in the end times by the Spirit of Elijah but this has not happened yet.We may have "sent out ones" in the present day Church but we do not have anyone with Apostolic Authority like the 12 or Paul

Prophets is a different story ,the scripture is talking about Old Testament Prophets .The Church is grafted into the tree and we clearly had new testament prophetesses and prophets in the early Church and their is no evidence to suggest this didnt continue.

ON WHETHER FALSE PROPHETS CAN BE CHRISTIAN
The answer is yes because prophesying falsely is a sin or in your words a serious offence and a sin can be covered by the blood of Jesus.So can a serious offence be covered by the blood yes.Will God take action yes.

ON TRUMP WINNING AND ORTHODOXY
All the people I have listened too personally saying Trump will win also are very Orthodox and love the Lord and are Christians going to heaven.

ON WHETHER I KNOW A TRUE PROPHET

Yes my Pastor ,he regularly gives me insight to things I need to know and help me with words from God.
On whether I have heard people on the internet say things that came to pass yes.

ONE OTHER POINT
Paul announced or introduced himself as I Paul An Apostle,he didnt say I am Apostle Paul and this is very important.He didnt call himself by his gifting like we do in the modern day Church when we introduce someone as Pastor David or Pastor Carter taking Times square as an example.This is unscriptural and has a very negative effect on the Church.

urs staff


 2021/1/8 12:44Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1908


 Re: Prophets of Trump

Paul writes this about prophecy.

1 Cor 14:23 - Therefore if the whole church gathers together and all the people speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Now imagine an unbeliever is coming to a Church, the Church is filled with people proclaiming who will win the election in the name of prophecy, will the secrets of his heart be disclosed? Will he fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is among them?

I was once an unbeliever and idol worshiper who had no clue about Jesus and Christianity. If I had entered the CHurch like this then I will straightway walkout that these are lunatics and political fanatics! There is no God in their midst, my Hindu temples are better!

The one who has never heard such a high standard of New Covenant prophesy can appreciate such useless politically motivated predictions in the name of prophecy. But a person like me whom God has showed the real Church of God where my heart is getting disclosed by prophetic word will never accept such degraded predictions as prophecy. A blind can call a mouse an elephant but a person who can see will not! I am not blind to call such things as prophecy. My eyes have seen real new covenant prophesy.


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Sreeram

 2021/1/8 15:48Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Sree,
A few comments
1.Who told you what God can reveal or not reveal?Are you God's Censor?
2 Who showed you or disclosed this "real Church of God"to you, how did he do it?and why should I believe you?
3 All true prophesy has only one standard ,their are not many standards and only a high standard can come from God
4 Is it better to have an Atheistic ,Abortion supporting ,Israel hating person to be President of the USA or President that supports Israel ,is Pro Life and has supported Christians and free speech more than any President in living memory?urs staff

Your Qoute
The one who has never heard such a high standard of New Covenant prophesy can appreciate such useless politically motivated predictions in the name of prophecy. But a person like me whom God has showed the real Church of God where my heart is getting disclosed by prophetic word will never accept such degraded predictions as prophecy. A blind can call a mouse an elephant but a person who can see will not! I am not blind to call such things as prophecy. My eyes have seen real new covenant prophesy.

 2021/1/8 17:11Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Sree,
Paul was making a point to the Corinthians whose meetings were getting out of control that they needed to be orderly,he wasnt degrading tongues or prophesy and showing how Prophesy was a greater gift than tongues and why it is a greater gift than tongues,urs staff

1 Cor 14:23 - Therefore if the whole church gathers together and all the people speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

 2021/1/8 17:15Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi All,it is accepted by many we are in the last days,
What are these dreams and visions going to be about?

Joel: 17‘ In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18Even on My menservants and maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.…

ACTS 10

Look at acts 10 it gives names ,where Peter is staying and even where that house is.It is so specific that Cornelius can relay the message to his servants to carry out Gods instructions.God can be specific ,God can communicate anything he wants ,You do not have to an Apostle or Prophet, to have a vision,God chose Cornelius because of his prayers and gifts to the poor to carry out his wishes.
Then God reveals a spiritual truth to Peter in a vision.The vision is abstract to a degree and the Lord doesnt qoute any scripture to Peter.
Also the vision to Cornelius was about the future as he said when you go to Simon the Tanners house you will find Peter there.Thats in the future.
You cant limit God to what he can reveal or who he reveals it too .Cornelius was a centurion who didnt have the Holy Spirit .
If God wants to reveal what is about to take place in the USA ,he will reveal what is about to take place in the USA.God is all knowing and if he wants to impart some of that insight ,he can impart that insight,urs staff

ACTS 10
Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.

The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8 He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.

 2021/1/8 18:32Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: No government can be governed by Biblical principles.

Nonsense

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." Roms 13:1 ESV

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.


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Colin Murray

 2021/1/8 20:33Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1378
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

Hi Deadn,
I will pick out the most important point first which if I can some up as does Prophesy exist in the new testament church .....

Peters words do not negate Pauls words ,just adds to them.Paul clearly is talking about the gifts and that Prophesy is a greater gift and why it is so good.He is also clearly talking about an utterance not the written word which Peter is talking about.We cannot rip out New Testament scripture as if it doesnt exist.Paul says Prophesy is hugely important .Lets not rob Paul to pay Peter.Peter is not negating Pauls scriptures.So prophesy remains

1 Cor 14
2For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3But he who prophesies speaks to men for their edification, encouragement, and comfort. 4The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.…
Peter did not say prophetic utterance is not nessacary but that scriptural prophesy is sure because it has already come to pass or alot of it.



And this happened in the early church as the church was being established. When church history is read you don't find any of the church fathers talking about speaking in other tongues. Why is this? I suggest that it is because the gift has passed away? I don't believe anyone has the gift of tongues today. Tongues, initially was the Book of Acts but somehow, today, it gravitated to being a heavenly language and has been used by many to see themselves as being super spiritual as a result. Do you see tongues in church history?



Quote:

I Qouted

The New Testament clearly states that the purpose of Prophesy is to Exhort,Comfort and Console the Church and if we do not have Prophesy well the consequences are we cant Exhort,Comfort and Console the body in such a direct way from the throne of God.



If this is the case then it voids out the bible and tells us the bible is not enough for us today. Do you agree with that? Can God not use the bible to direct us, as a body, in a certain way?

Quote:

You Qouted

*******The NT also says that the church was established on the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets. THis doesn't suggest continuing Apostles or prophets. Even Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy in the scriptures and this was said after being on the mountain with Jesus and hearing the voice of the Father. He pointed back to the scriptures

ON APOSTLES AND PROPHETS IN THE CHURCH.

I do not believe we have Apostles like the 12 Apostles or Paul in the present day Church .However since the bible is cyrstal clear that all the 12 Apostles come from John The Baptist (and not Jesus)who came in the Spirit of Elijah I believe that Apostles will be restored to the Church in the end times by the Spirit of Elijah but this has not happened yet.We may have "sent out ones" in the present day Church but we do not have anyone with Apostolic Authority like the 12 or Paul



"I believe that Apostles will be restored to the Church in the end times by the Spirit of Elijah but this has not happened yet"
Where does this come from?

I suggest that the NAR people have created such a concept. Nowhere in scripture is this taught. In fact Paul calls out a group of 'super apostles' as false apostles. The NAR claims to be a group of super apostles and they have been demomstrated to be false prophets and apostles. They dabble into mysticism and are not grounded in the Word at all.

Quote:

Prophets is a different story ,the scripture is talking about Old Testament Prophets .The Church is grafted into the tree and we clearly had new testament prophetesses and prophets in the early Church and their is no evidence to suggest this didnt continue.




Can you reveal, in church history, where there are prophets and prophetesses after the cannon of scritpure is closed? A lot of this stuff came back in the 1800s and in that century a lot of cults developed as well.

Quote:

ON WHETHER FALSE PROPHETS CAN BE CHRISTIAN
The answer is yes because prophesying falsely is a sin or in your words a serious offence and a sin can be covered by the blood of Jesus.So can a serious offence be covered by the blood yes.Will God take action yes.



In the OT a false prophet was to be stoned to death. Would that person be of God if that was the case? Today we don't stone false prophets but it is evident that false prophets are doing 1 0f 2 things. Following their own heart or following a different spirit. This means they are not trusting in Jesus and therefore they cannot be Christian. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7?

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



Quote:

ON TRUMP WINNING AND ORTHODOXY
All the people I have listened too personally saying Trump will win also are very Orthodox and love the Lord and are Christians going to heaven.




Are these people speaking prophetically or just from their own personal judgment? I question anyone who maintained that Trump would win given the evidence around him. i.e. Gop people saying there was little evidence of much fraud. GOP governor or Ga and Az for 2 examples. William Barr another example.

Quote:


ON WHETHER I KNOW A TRUE PROPHET

Yes my Pastor ,he regularly gives me insight to things I need to know and help me with words from God.
On whether I have heard people on the internet say things that came to pass yes.



Your pastor is not prophesying to you. He may be giving you Godly insight and counsel but he isn't prophesying. He is doing what Proverbs exhorts us to do and that is a good thing. He is a Shepherd.

Quote:

ONE OTHER POINT
Paul announced or introduced himself as I Paul An Apostle,he didnt say I am Apostle Paul and this is very important.He didnt call himself by his gifting like we do in the modern day Church when we introduce someone as Pastor David or Pastor Carter taking Times square as an example.This is unscriptural and has a very negative effect on the Church.



The bible does say the Spirit gave some to be this and that. Pastors are a gift to the church BUT the issue comes when that pastor is a wolf in sheeps clothing.


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John

 2021/1/8 20:35Profile





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