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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Taking Covid vaccine as a Christian.

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4589


 Re:

Hi Sree,

Quote:
I don't believe it is 100% true. I know people with no previous health issues getting affected drastically.



I think that I understand what you've written. The rates that I'm referring to are derived and quantified from the collected medical data.

There are a couple of ways to look at the mortality rate from COVID-19.

1.) Overall mortality rate: 0.12%

First of all, you compare the overall population with the percentage who die from COVID-19. That is the overall rate of death from COVID-19. Since the population is vast, this number isn't particularly accurate.

- There are about 328 Million people living in the United States.
- There have been more than 399,000 deaths associated with COVID-19.

This works out to a total rate of 0.12%. This figure is derived by dividing the number of deaths by the total population.

This means that 0.12% of the overall American population has ALREADY DIED from COVID-19. While that figure seems quite low, it doesn't tell the full story.

2.) Contraction-morality rate: 1.66%

- There have been 24.1 Million COVID-19 cases in the United States.
- There have been more than 399,000 deaths associated with COVID-19.

This works out to a total rate of 1.66% (currently rising upward). This figure is derived by dividing the total number of deaths by the total number of people diagnosed with COVID-19.

This is a more accurate assessment of COVID-19 mortality rates.

If someone were to say that they weren't worried about a particular strain of flu because 99.88% will not die from it, that is technically "accurate" but not a good explanation.

However, if you know that more than 24.1 Million people (nearly 7.4% of the entire population) have ALREADY contracted that strain and nearly 2% of those people (nearly 400,000) have already DIED from it, then the gravity of the situation becomes a bit clearer.

Statistically speaking, the people who are at greatest risk of death from COVID-19 are the elderly and those with preexisting medical issues (with pulmonary and coagulation issues chief among them). However, there are younger and healthier people who have died too. Of course, they are the outlier when it comes to COVID mortality.

Nationally, over 80% of COVID-19 deaths have a comorbidity. This means that a person with a preexisting medical condition contracted COVID and it led to death. Of the remaining people without a comorbidity who died from this pandemic so far, most were over the age of 75. This is likely due to the breakdown of the immune system as you age.

Very few non-elderly or people without a comorbidity have died from COVID-19. Still, there are a number who have (albeit small compared with the overall rates).

The issue here with the vaccines is that they are scientifically shown to be effective against COVID-19. They did NOT use aborted tissue or cells in the creation of the vaccine.

However, during the testing phase, the vaccine was tested for effectiveness in a lab using many different types of cell lines -- including one cell line that descended from replicated cells that were probably originally taken from an aborted baby during the early 1970s.

Does this mean that believers should NOT take this vaccine?

I don't think so.

Obviously, we hold the same view of abortion as our Lord. Abortion is murder. However, the cells in that cell line were likely taken from that murdered child and replicated over the decades since. They were not used IN the vaccine. The vaccine was simply tested in those cells (among many others) in the effort to prove efficacy.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem taking this vaccine. I'll likely take it once it is available to me. I'll also encourage my parents to pray about it too. I'm certainly open to scrutinizing the collected data too.

I'm also aware that the Lord can protect us from deadly dangers and even pandemics. At the same time, I know that we are to do what we can when we can.

Shortly after I came to the Lord, I knew a couple that was expecting their first child. They had become enamored by a prosperity gospel message.

While speaking with them, they said that they believed that we were "free from the curses of Genesis" -- and that they were sure that she wouldn't feel "birth pains." This husband and wife were "claiming" that they would be exempt from those things due to the healing offered by our Lord.

After the mother had her baby, I saw her a week later at church. I asked her, "Did it hurt?"

Her eyes widened and looked very serious. She nodded and replied, "Oh yeah."


_________________
Christopher

 2021/1/19 17:14Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re: Vaccines and aborted babies

Quote:

The issue here with the vaccines is that they are scientifically shown to be effective against COVID-19. They did NOT use aborted tissue or cells in the creation of the vaccine.

However, during the testing phase, the vaccine was tested for effectiveness in a lab using many different types of cell lines -- including one cell line that descended from replicated cells that were probably originally taken from an aborted baby during the early 1970s.

Does this mean that believers should NOT take this vaccine?



I understand your view. Here is my problem against those who are concerned about the use of cells from aborted babies.

Suppose one of their children is blind and they found an option for eye transplantation, will they worry about whether the person from whom the eyes were murdered or not? Even if the original owner of the eyes was murdered which is a sin, we still do not mind using that eye to give sight to another. Many including me are voluntary eye donors who are wishing their eyes to be used to others even if we are murdered.

How are the cells of aborted babies any different from the eyes of a person who is murdered? When it comes to organ transplantation, Christians have no problem with the donor being murdered, but why alone minor things like vaccines?

I see huge hypocrisy here. If you are trusting modern-day medicines then trust them fully and take everything by faith and thanking God.

I believe such people get some self-denial feeling when they deny such vaccines and hence derive a religious feeling out of such worthless denials.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/1/21 18:51Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 785
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

The difference between using cells from aborted babies in medical research and giving someone an eye transplant is an ungodly law allows children to be murdered in the womb, and another ungodly law allows medical research companies to buy dismembered body parts of children to do experiments on. There is no law that says adults can be murdered for body parts.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2021/1/21 19:37Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 140


 Re:

Just some final comments.
I pointed out that many people died in Norway. Someone commented:
"There are adverse reactions to all sorts of vaccines, even the flu shot. "
If once one of our family members dies, then we probably don't call it an "adverse reaction" anymore.

Some are probably suggesting I'm a hypocrite because i use technology such as internet etc.
I use the internet but I'm avoiding most websites !
Another example: I have probably flown over a hundred times in an aircraft. But I'm avoiding the Boeing 737 MAX for the time being, for some that makes me a hypocrite.

"If you are trusting modern-day medicines then trust them fully and take everything by faith and thanking God."
You are misusing the word "faith" here. This has nothing to do with Biblical faith.

I don't want to have anything more to do with this discussion.
I said all along "choose this day..."
I believe some of the most evil times are ahead of us and the Church needs to go through "fire" to be purified.
Time will tell us if we made the right decisions.

Keep your eyes on Jesus !

 2021/1/21 22:43Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

The difference between using cells from aborted babies in medical research and giving someone an eye transplant is an ungodly law allows children to be murdered in the womb, and another ungodly law allows medical research companies to buy dismembered body parts of children to do experiments on. There is no law that says adults can be murdered for body parts.




I appreciate this view but we live by God's law first according to which both abortion and murder are sins.

In the time of Apostle Paul, it was a common practice to offer meat to idols before selling it in the market. The early Christians were concerned about eating such meat knowing that it would have most probably been offered to idols. The concern of the early Christians was exactly the same, they said if they eat such meat that was offered to Idols, are we not encouraging this practice of idol worship?

This is the same question that you have, if I take vaccines then am I not supporting a bad law that legalizes abortion?

Here is Paul's answer - 1 Cor 10:25 - Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience.

So just take vaccines that are sold in the market without raising any questions of conscience on how it is made in the background.

1 Cor 10:28 - But if someone tells you, “This food was offered to idols,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience

Now if any company proudly advertises that they are using aborted baby cells and thereby they support abortion and women's rights! Then there is a reason for us not to take it for the sake of the conscience of those who watch us. Even in that case, no one will be burdened by their conscience, because to the pure all things are pure.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/1/22 9:38Profile
Tomo07
Member



Joined: 2012/2/16
Posts: 105
Australia

 Re:

Anyone any further thoughts, I'm still unsure about all this. I went back to view so videos on youtube about this subject, some were recommended here via links, however youtube is removing them... apparently they breach the 'community guidelines'
This whole censorship and cancelation move is wrong and makes any research hard when one side is being silenced...


_________________
Peter

 2021/2/15 6:10Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5918
NC, USA

 Re:

My mom and dad, both near 80, have had their second shot last week and both are perfectly fine.

YouTube is not the best place for info unless you are really into extremism and conspiracy theories.


_________________
Todd

 2021/2/15 8:40Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1602
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Tomo (Peter)

Well it seems the answers to you inquiry are as varied as one might expect from a modern day pool of commentators,... it’s interesting to me that there isn’t a consensus other than to say those that won’t willingly take the vaccine (flu shot) are apparently being considered either hypocrites or conspiracy theorist 🤷🏽‍♂️ by those whom would willingly take it... this (to me) is a sad thing-

There is undoubtedly confirmation bias followed by cognitive dissonance involved on both sides and as such requires a sincere love of the truth to navigate.

As a barber I am in daily constant contact with a diverse cross section of the American public, from physicians to maids and have a unique opportunity to question them on a very personal level- for some reason people tend to talk to me about personal issues and I don’t discourage it but see it as an opportunity to introduce or encourage them in the Lord :)

Having said this, many clients have had the different vaccines and some with no reaction, while others have mild and others still severe (requiring hospitalization) reactions to having received the vaccinations and booster shots. As yet I haven’t had any clients die from the vaccine but I do have clients that have been told their loved ones died of Covid -

Personally I’m not “pro” nor “anti” vaxx but I do appreciate the methodology of science and it’s readily observable that the scientific method has been laid aside in many cases regarding the collection and distribution of information on this event. Science can’t do a 180 on an issue and still be science, as empirical evidence is the standard and has been all but abandoned except for when it adds credibility to a persons predetermined disposition,... ie; confirmation bias -

I honestly believe this entire event is purely spiritual and all of the social, cultural, political, and medical aspects are the manifestations of what takes place first in the spirit- we are in a spiritual war that has utilized this event to further divide people, turning even the closest brethren against one another-

Ultimately each of us must decide for ourselves wether we will or will not take the vaccine and what are we willing to give up in order to maintain our position. Wether that be the ability to travel, to physically enter businesses or even attend worship,... these things will inevitably come into play and in many places already have. Fear and faith both require you to believe what you can’t see,... choose wisely 🙏🏻

Regarding the empirical evidence of science, I’ll leave you with this -
Having worked with the homeless population for years they were especially on my heart when this event first broke out and interestingly haven’t been decimated in spite of their lack of potable water, sanitation, consistent food sources, access to medical services, or even basic hygiene not to mention their complete inability to socially distance during the colder months. I know from personal experience that their immune systems are in general weak and historically disease spreads rapidly in the various “camps” yet they have not had high rates of infections or deaths due to this event. With the purported transmissibility and mortality rates the homeless population should have been severely affected,... yet they are not 🧐
As a side note; another modern entitlement that the homeless population doesn’t have access to could be a factor as they by in large don’t have access to media in the form of medical propaganda surrounding them 24/7 as does the rest of the population... perhaps this may also be a factor 🤷🏽‍♂️

(For me) when the scientific community goes back and forth on basic (testable) issues there is usually allot of monies involved as is the case with this event... several companies, not just pharmaceutical, stand to make substantial profits from mass vaccination schedules and as such will more often than not make decisions and determinations based on these factors over and against others. Governments also stand to gain more control of their respective citizens and history will show that when a government gains a measure of control in order to remedy a temporary situation, they rarely if ever give it up after the situation has been resolved but rather seek to justify a continuation of said control... I believe this will be no different and will only be a new basis for a most extreme form of subverting the worlds population into a medical tyranny utilizing the self-preservation mechanism to turn people against one another and effectively dismembering the body of Christ around the world :(


_________________
Fletcher

 2021/2/15 9:55Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 140


 Re:

"Anyone any further thoughts, I'm still unsure about all this"
dolfan has already posted the following link in another thread, because it is important I copy it here as well.
https://www.israel21c.org/has-israel-just-found-the-cure-for-covid/
There are different cures available, but we don't have a choice, someone else is making it for us.
Why is youtube removing some links ?
You can also try different search engines, like swisscows.com and others. You might find different results.
Thankfully there is still a lot of good information out there.

 2021/2/15 17:24Profile
browny
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 458


 Re:

Thanks brother Greg!

 2021/4/7 14:01Profile





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