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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4527


 Re:

Hi TMK,

Quote:

Chris- your post highlights a theme that I have been thinking about, namely to what extent should a parent(in the case you mention also a pastor) bear the blame for the way their children turn out? One of the qualifications for elders is to “manage his household well.” Does that mean the pastor in your example should be disqualified? (As an aside, he never should have allowed his son to work with youth in the church given his admission- that was a gross error in judgment in my opinion).

We all have heard a pastors kids who go astray- it’s almost a cliche. Certainly the devil has a hand in this.

But the parents cannot always be blamed- or can they?

And I struggle with the practical side of things- how do you deal with the daughter in the situation. I described? She’s only 14.



If I had a child who had a deadly medical condition, I would do whatever I could to save her. I'd certainly pray and cry out to the Lord on her behalf. Yet, I'd do other things too. This might mean leaving a job or moving. I'd search the world for a cure.

If my children were starving, I would do whatever I could to change that situation. I would search desperately for a job that could allow me to feed them. I'd switch professions, relocate and/or do anything and everything to stop their suffering.

So, when I see the children of pastors who are falling away while their father tries to disciple the church, I can't help but think that it would be better for that pastor to step down -- at least temporarily -- and take care of his own family first.

OF course, I'm not saying that the pastor is to "blame." What I am saying is that the pastor must be RESPONSIBLE for his children. Aside from his own relationship with God, this is his first and greatest responsibility.

The verses that you quoted, I Timothy 3:4-5, identifies this need. In fact, the verse continues:
Quote:

KJV: "One that ruleth well his own house, HAVING HIS CHILDREN IN SUBJECTION WITH ALL GRAVITY; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"

NASB: "He must be one who manages his own household well, KEEPING HIS CHILDREN UNDER CONTROL WITH ALL DIGNITY (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)"

NIV: "He must manage his own family well AND SEE THAT HIS CHILDREN OBEY HIM, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)"


Regardless of each translation's wording, there is a key requirement in that the "overseer" or "bishop" must manage his own family.

The girl that you mentioned is 14-years-old. However, I strongly suspect that the issues within that girl's heart occurred before she turned 14. At the first sight of these issues, I think that the pastor should have acted differently on her behalf -- even if it meant losing his career.

I think that this is a major issue today. In both the situation that you brought up and the one involving the pastor who lives near me, I think that they might see things differently. This is because their "calling" is now a "job." It is their "bread and butter." I suspect that many pastors see their profession as a "responsibility" -- overseeing many other people.

This is a problem. The pastor's first responsibility is to his own family. This is why Paul said that it would be better "not to marry" -- because such a man has to consider the concerns of his family (and his sense of responsibility might feel divided).

As such, I think that it is important for a pastor to step away at the first signs of a serious lasting issue in his children. His focus should be on managing his family and providing care for that child.

No one would look down at a man if he stepped away from a job to care for a sick or dying child. Many states and countries even have laws that allow for this. The United States even passed the "Family and Medical Leave Act" so that a parent can look after a sick child.

In a spiritual sense, the pastor that you described has a spiritually sick child. That pastor -- at the first sign of a major ongoing problem -- should have taken a sabbatical (even if it resulted in losing his position). He might have to find another job or even relocate.

While he might not be to blame for that child, he is certainly responsible for her. The decision will ultimately be up to her. However, he must do everything within his power to fight for her soul -- even at the cost of his pastoral "career." It really is the heart of the matter.


_________________
Christopher

 2020/8/6 13:52Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

Excellent thoughts Chris.


_________________
Todd

 2020/8/6 14:46Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

One thing I have decided is I will never judge parents based on how the children have grown up into. If our Children are Godly then it is absolute mercy of God, we cannot take any credit on this. There are times when we can clearly see the mistakes of some parents like how we see in this case. But even in those cases, we should not judge the parents.

While the mistake of the parents in this case of a Child associating herself with LGBTQ is very cleary, there are many things that are not visible to us. I basically feel that the parents have fallen to what is acceptable in the world. In the world it is acceptable for a child to associate herself with such groups, so we as a Christian parent should also accept them. This appear to be the mentality of the parents here.

How many Christian parents have accepted that it is normal for their children to take part in Prom nights with a person of opposite sex? How many Christian Parents have accepted that it is normal for their children to have a premarital sexual relationship? How are these things any different from this Pastor who accepted his child as LGBTQ? At least he has honesty to accept that his belief is contrary to what he sees in the Church.


_________________
Sreeram

 2020/8/7 10:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

Excellent points Sree.


_________________
Todd

 2020/8/7 14:16Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

Here is an email my dad sent to this pastor:
————
I am only speaking for me now. K— and I have not discussed what my message was going to be to you. I have given serious thought, prayer and consideration in my words to you. That being said, I shoot straight from the hip as you probably know and I will stand on the comments I make at all times.

I am truly sorry that Lily has chosen the LGBTQ path in her life. She is very young to be so sure that this is her lifetime destiny. Whatever has influenced her is basically coming from the evil and sin in this world. I cannot believe that God directed her on this path. Any born again Christian knows that this is wrong and evil in God’s sight. I know we love our children but love cannot overshadow the direction a child takes that is contrary to God’s teachings. As Christian parents we are responsible for overcoming evil when it attacks our family. We cannot give in to it and we must fight it with all the tools available to us. Calling Lily…. Lee is a big step in surrendering to sin. In your house under your roof your children live by your Christian biblical standards not standards adopted by a 14 year old child influenced by a sinful world. She is LILY!

Nowhere in the Bible can I find anything that condones men marrying men and women marrying women. In fact, it is clear that the female was made to be a help to the male and to share their lives as like minded couples that God approves of in the relationship. I was startled to hear you say that you had become tolerate of recognizing gay marriages. I believe you said that same sex individuals falling in love and living as married couples had some level of acceptance to our God. You know you cannot present a shred of evidence to support that idea Biblically. You are crashing and burning in your ministry if you choose to follow a path based on sinful practices that you choose to accept and tolerate. You don’t make the rules. God has already made them.

I think you have been straying doctrinally for a while now as you have wrestled with who you are and what you are choosing to become. What you are choosing to become is not a committed servant of God. You are trying to preach a different doctrine that is unacceptable to our God. I hope those who know you, respect you and wish for you to continue as a minister of the gospel will pray fervently that you return to preaching Godly biblical messages that do not allow any sinful thoughts or practices to be part of your message. If you truly believe that at some time you were called into Christian ministry then you must accept that you do not get to make the rules and preach what seems right for today. God has not changed the ages old message of salvation and living a Godly life. It is a simple message that needs no changes or influences to modernize it for todays world. If todays world does not fit then todays world is wrong.

I will pray for what your future holds.


_________________
Todd

 2020/8/7 19:44Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re: Pastor resignation- looking for input

Tragic.

I see where this pastor and his wife were embracing liberal theology. If this is the case then the fact that their daughter is living out the liberal theology, would it be remiss to suggest the parents contributed to her sin by embracing a philosophy that accommodated perversion?

Methinks this fellow should have been excommunicated instead of giving him the option to resign. Telling him to resign is just a slap on the wrist. Embracing perversion is damming to the soul - read Romans 1:32.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2020/9/1 21:03Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

How do you excommunicate a Protestant?


_________________
Todd

 2020/9/1 21:34Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37580
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
How do you excommunicate a Protestant?



In a sense its impossible as anyone can just start a new church, new ministry and be accepted again by others. The idea of church discipline is very minimal in our day. Larger denominations have some re-course that within their group they can take away credentials etc.

I was reading Titus this morning:

Titus 3:10 - New International Version

10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2020/9/2 2:56Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

Agreed- thx Greg.


_________________
Todd

 2020/9/2 7:28Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re: Brother Greg

Quote:
Brother Greg said...The idea of church discipline is very minimal in our day.

This could possibly be the understatement of the year, maybe decade.


_________________
Bill

 2020/9/2 8:18Profile





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