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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Where God's proactive effort and man's response meet

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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 552


Hi Mak, it might go deeper than "accomplices". IT is more Biblical I find to say that the sin we succumb to is a part of our soul, our body, mind and heart, a part of our nature, and a part of our character. Here are some testimonies of God about me before a new birth which attest to this reality even if I didn't have this testimony about myself in my own estimation:

The soul of the wicked desires evil; his neighbor finds no mercy in his eyes. - Proverbs 21:10

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44-46

among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. - Ephesians 2:3

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? - Jeremiah 17:9

The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. - Genesis 6:5


 2020/5/17 13:28Profile

Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA


Robert wrote:

This may seem obvious but there seems to be a dividing line in Christendom between God being merciful because of the good in man and God being merciful solely because of the goodness in God.

Yes, I agree. We cannot pamper the depravity of man in his unconverted state. During real revivals of the past the preaching was such that it humbled man in his rebellion against God and exalted the holiness, righteousness and justice of God, while offering the remedy of Christ crucified and risen.


 2020/5/17 13:40Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916


Jeff wrote:
// is Christ responsible for those who you believe do not have an "equal" chance to be saved?/

Yes! Thank goodness for that, because Christ ALWAYS does what is right.

First I want to clarify that I DO believe God reveals himself in nature. But that is a very far cry from growing up in a Christian home or listening to Tozer preach.

I guess it possibly boils down to whether one believes God is fair. I think so, which is why I can’t accept that God would do outrageous things, like holding persons accountable for facts they do not know exist.


 2020/5/17 13:58Profile

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724


Thank you Robert. No disagreement here from me.


Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/17 14:24Profile

Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Brother Todd

I guess it possibly boils down to whether one believes God is fair. I think so, which is why I can’t accept that God would do outrageous things, like holding persons accountable for facts they do not know exist. —

Yes but... “fair” is a very subjective term whereas the scriptures use the phrase “impartial”, which God is in fact impartial and/or “not a respecter of persons”.

Which is another way of acknowledging that God has given everyone a “measure, gift, or talent of faith” and (my understanding) is that we are ultimately judged based on what we did with that measure of faith or how we invested the talent He gave us.

I believe we agree that a man will be judged according to the “light” he has and as such a person whom had access to the whole council of the word would be in a position to more thoroughly exercise himself unto godliness than a person whom never heard the gospel in a formal respect but only insofar as he chooses to do so. If the man who has a little light uses it to its fullest capacity and another person has lots of light and only uses it in part to grow in godliness then the judgement would indeed be fair and impartial based on the response to the gift.

Many parables speak to this end...
Ten talents
Pearl of great price
Treasure buried in a field
Vinedressers mistreatments of those sent
The King calling those for His Sons wedding

So while my intention is not to in any way diminish the role of knowledge or wisdom or virtue or prudence, it is also important to understand they are to be added to our faith which itself is a gift from God.
2 Peter 1 - outlines this as a dynamic structural framework to plot out our growth unto godliness.

Again,... “it’s by faith” Hence Hebrews 11 -
So my current understanding is that the Lord gave us all a measure of faith and we will all use it,... either to grow and thereby exercise ourselves unto godliness or to grow and exercise our flesh “old man” unto religious activities. (And by “religious” I mean anything we do religiously)

I’m liking very much how Mak parsed this out when he submitted that the Lord will forgive our “compliance” with sin but will not be so forgiving of our unwillingness to respond likewise to His grace which (if we respond in faith) will lead us out of sin as a conceptual framework for our lives effectively dethroning our “old man” and turning our eyes from a life of self focus to see Jesus high and lifted up whereby the Holy Spirit can lead us into an intimate fellowship ultimately consummating in our communion with God in Christ Jesus :) But each and every step we take with or toward this end is exclusively by faith and even a mustard seeds worth ....


 2020/5/17 15:17Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916


Fletcher -I’m going to respond in the “what about those that don’t know” thread.


 2020/5/17 15:52Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1109


May I interject Brother Gbile Akanni’s here ?

I listened to this message this morning, and realized that what he is saying, is so fitting with the conversation that you are having,..

so would you allow him to share his voice w/ us ?


02, “Transformation, Translation, Not Twisting “
Gbile Akanni

 2020/5/17 17:01Profile

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