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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God and the accuser wager over Job's life

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romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 332


 Re:

Sandra asked: "has this thread answered your questions?"

The answer is: not really. I think it is a difficult question to answer, which is why I don't have an answer myself.

It is funny that in the thread that Savannah provided a quote from me is used several times. Apparently, I said on some thread: "this is the main question in the matter of FAITH: do we TRUST God to be Who He says He is? Do we even know Who He is?"

That is the question here, is it not? For those of us who trust God to be merciful, graceful, and loving the setup of Job is not really a problem. We might not really feel comfortable with it, but we trust our God to be good, so we don't dwell too much time on it.

I think that there really isn't an answer that will satisfy someone who is doubting God. So I will be praying for this person.

Thank you for asking.

Natalie


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Natalie

 2020/1/19 23:49Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 500
Cambodia

 Re:

Everything that God does is good. Everything that God allows others to do, no matter how evil, is for good. That is Scripture no matter how we may resist. If we fight that, then either God is not good or God is not in control.
To suggest that God is in control but He cedes His sovereignty to Satan so that Satan can exercise his own free will is ludicrous. Thus, God is either in control and good or God is not in control.


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Robert

 2020/1/20 7:30Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5621
NC, USA

 Re:

Robert- are you making God responsible for sin? If you are that’s your prerogative- I’m just can’t tell from your post.

Because, for example, if you are suggesting God uses child molestation for good, we would have to part company on that point.


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Todd

 2020/1/20 8:22Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 500
Cambodia

 Re:

Some people have said that if God planned for and punished His own Son on the cross with His wrath that He is a child molester. They say we would be accusing God of evil if We say He did this.

Joseph was a favorite of God and in jealousy ripped from his family and sold into slavery by his brothers and was unjustly imprisoned for 13 years even though he did no wrong. All to save the very people who abused him. God said through Joseph that those who did such horrible things planned it for evil but that God planned it for good. Your argument Todd is clearly with God and not me.

You speak as a foolish woman speaks, he told her. Should we accept only good from God and not adversity? Throughout all this Job did not sin in what he said. Job 2:10.

I don’t think I’m sinning Todd in what I’ve said that God says.


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Robert

 2020/1/20 18:46Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5621
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 Re:

Robert-

You are saying that God allows, or directly causes children to be sexually abused by adults for some “good.” You are stating this is an incontrovertible fact.

I am saying that God does no such thing, regardless of how it may appear to us who have very weak minds.

I would never slander God in such a terrible manner. I may not understand it because of the limitation of my ability to comprehend but I would never ever state with 100% certainty that God does horrifying things to children to get some “good” out of it.

Note I am not saying that God could not somehow get good out of it; I am saying it is slanderous and libelous to say that He would use that *method*.

I refuse to lay that at God’s feet, and so should you.


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Todd

 2020/1/20 20:13Profile
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 500
Cambodia

 Re:

In the last days before Christ comes, the devil and his demons will be unleashed on mankind and the restraint in men of their conscience and the Holy Spirit of peace will be withdrawn. Unbelievable atrocities will occur against people of all ages, even saints and even children. Who commands and releases all that? The Scripture answers that clearly. But, as horrible as all that is, many youth will suffer unbelievable torment for their sin forever from the wrath and cup of God’s anger. Forever. Does this break my heart? Of course. I’m human. But God is not weeping when all this occurs against the ungodly. This is where I bow, praise God for His perfect wisdom and ways, thank Him for my mercy and praise Him for His righteous judgements. This is where I bow rather than accuse.


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Robert

 2020/1/20 21:58Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand

 Re:

Uh ... seems odd to have to mention this ... but it is absent from the thread thoughts in any way.

It would be important to be aware that Job did not even know that satan existed. Job attributed all things good and bad to God. You don't see Job even once have an inkling of an idea that he has an enemy. In his mind it's all God ... good, bad, & ugly.

 2020/1/21 13:22Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: Divine concurrence


Divine Concurrence is a very difficult subject. I wont in this little post scratch the surface of it, and probably will generate more questions than answers.

God is not the author of sin.

Nevertheless God uses wicked men, nations, ideologies and philosophies indwelling in men to accomplish his own ends.

When one does a fair study of Jeremiah and Ezekiel one cannot come away saying "Well, God just permitted evil". There are way too many chapters, passages and themes where God is directly sending Israel into harms way. Men, women and Children suffered horribly. Rape and murder, starvation and enslavement were all a part of God's judgments on his own people.

If one sits down, turns off the phone, radio and TV and actually thinks through the ramifications of God's sovereignty over the nations...even pagan nations startling conclusions arise. The student of scripture must put flesh and blood on the judgments of God.

We are right when we quote scripture that God is good. We are right when we quote God is a God of judgments.

Difficulty arises when we know God is not blind and deaf to the cries of those who suffer, yet God is not twiddling his thumbs waiting for someone to make the first move toward him. For the most part, it is too dark and foggy to navigate Divine concurrence, where God is working, sin is working, evil is working all at the same time...and the appearances of evil winning for no good reason ( in our minds) is far too often.

Our own county serves as a true example. Why are our children being attacked by the perverse...telling them to decide their own gender, to be what they want. Parents are shamed for interfering with their decisions. LGBTQ rages forward with more and more political clout, silencing and shaming anyone contrary to their agenda.
All of this wickedness...sex trades, corruption, hatreds, violence all flourish before God's judgments.

To some it make sense on a large scale judgment to rid the world of such people, but on the small scale, where little suzy in suburbia was abducted and sold into the same sex trade as those in pagan countries makes no sense.

One thing we do not get to do, is dumb down God and act as if God is just a passive passerby to human plight, nor is it right to use our own morality to judge God when evil is committed in the most senseless and meaningless situations with not even a peep from God.

Wherever you fall in this topic, judging God like the wicked is blasphemous.


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Marvin

 2020/1/21 13:39Profile
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 Re:

Solomon101 wrote:

//It would be important to be aware that Job did not even know that satan existed./

Great point- I never considered that before. And in the story as written, God did not enlighten him. That would have been a tough conversation.


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Todd

 2020/1/21 14:49Profile
jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 311


 Re: Solomon101 is deceived?

I am not a betting man, but I’d wager that Job knew the story of the fall, the serpent, Kain, the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. pretty well. 👍🙋🏼‍♂️
Edit to say:
Otherwise God would have shown him, as he was a believer.
Ezekiel 14:14
even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord God.


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J Kruger

 2020/1/21 16:48Profile





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