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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The trouble started when I tried to do good - Derek Prince

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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855



2 Cor. 3:5-6 –
Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


Ps. 106:44-45 –
Nevertheless He looked upon their distress
When He heard their cry;
And He remembered His covenant for their sake,
And relented according to the greatness of His lovingkindness.


Hab. 2:3 –
For the vision is yet for the appointed time;
It hastens toward the goal and it will not fail.
Though it tarries, wait for it;
For it will certainly come, it will not delay.

Ps. 130:5-6 –
I wait for the LORD, my soul waits,
And in His word I do hope.
My soul waits for the Lord
More than the watchmen for the morning;
Indeed, more than the watchmen for the morning.


2 Chr. 20:17 –
You will not need to fight in this battle. Position yourselves, stand still and see the salvation of the LORD, who is with you……


 2019/9/25 1:50Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855

 Re: davidkeel


The old man’s experience is as true as yours. Why do you scoff at his experience and exalt your own?

Ps. 115:1
Not to us, O LORD, not to us,
But to Your name give glory
Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth.

It is JESUS who saves us from our sins.

Deut. 8:17-18 –
Otherwise, you may say in your heart, ‘My power and the strength of my hand made me this wealth.’ But you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, THAT HE MAY CONFIRM HIS COVENANT WHICH HE SWORE TO YOUR FATHERS, as it is this day.

Ps. 108:3 –
THROUGH GOD we will do valiantly,
And IT IS HE who shall tread down our adversaries.

Ps. 71:1-16 –
But as for me, I will hope continually,
And will praise You yet more and more.
My mouth shall tell of Your righteousness
And of Your salvation all day long;
For I do not know the sum of them.
I will come with the mighty deeds of the Lord GOD;
I will make mention of Your righteousness, Yours alone.

Ps. 44:3 –
For by their own sword they did not possess the land,
And their own arm did not save them,
But Your right hand and Your arm and the light of Your presence,
For You favored them.
v. 6-8 –
For I will not trust in my bow,
Nor will my sword save me.
But You have saved us from our adversaries,
And You have put to shame those who hate us.
In God we have boasted all day long,
And we will give thanks to Your name forever. Selah.

You said: “……and to pray.”


The old man prayed too.

Ps. 65:2 –
O You who hear prayer,
To You all men come.

Ps. 55:16 –
As for me, I shall call upon God,
And the LORD will save me.
v.18 –
He will redeem my soul in peace from the battle which is against me,
For they are many who strive with me.

God's house is a house of prayer. Ask and you will receive.

The “incredible place of fellowship with the Lord” is the Most Holy Place. The only way to enter there is “by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh” (Heb. 10:19-20).

Gal. 6:14 –
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.



 2019/9/25 1:55Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855


We must, of course, be humble for our prayer to be acceptable to God.


Luke 18:10-14

And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’

I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


 2019/9/25 4:01Profile

Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 475
West Sussex, England


Hi Jade,

I am not sure what you mean about scoffing at the old man ?

I'm not against grace. And receiving that through faith. It is when we use that as the sole means for our transformation and change when the Lord asks us to do other things in the Scriptures like taking control of our thought life etc.

Most of the Scriptures that have been quoted though are taken out of context I believe.

Romans 7 for example is used as a reason why we can't change anything for ourselves. But Paul was talking in the third person describing the way the carnal man desires to operate within him. If he was saying that there's nothing he can do to change himself and his behaviour then he would be wrong to then go on to tell people they should repent. Which he does in various writings.

I'm trying to stand up for what's right in as far as we are called to walk upon a narrow way. To take up our cross to deny self daily.

I do believe in grace and it's strength. But not when people are telling us we can't do anything to repent and obey God in our minds.

And Paul said we are still being saved. And also our salvation is closer now than when we first believed. We are being called unto a holy life. I'm trying to warn people. It's not over yet. We have to follow Christ.

David Keel

 2019/9/25 4:37Profile

Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279


I never said it was over. The truth is that Christ living, dwelling and abiding within us is is just the beginning.

Jesus Christ Himself is our CONTINUOUS and NEVER ENDING connection to GOD!

The Holy Spirit takes the things of Christ and makes them real to us every second of every day. This does not end.

The Christian life is one of non-ending discovery of the Revelation of CHRIST living WITHIN US us our "only hope of glory.

All commands, extortions, admonitions and warnings are truly satisfied and are being fulfilled by Christ's life within us.

2 Peter 1:3-4, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

We will never keep the commandments, only as we take hold of the promise of eternal Life that Gods gives us in Christ. By this I mean, that grace alone (the actual person of Christ living, dwelling and abiding with us) enables us, from the heart, to obey the commandments of God. It is, therefore, only when we lay hold of Him by faith, can we receive and enjoy the fulfillment in ourselves. This the only obedience possible because it is the only way for us to keep the commandments of God.

For example, how can anyone love the Lord our God, according to the first great commandment? God Himself is the only source of this love that is required. No person can ever produce this love by anything that they do or that they avoid doing, In other words, it is the person of Christ who is within us who continually supplies God's love in us and through us.

Now Christ has made us partakers of God's divine nature, or the attributes and perfections of God. We receive Christ's very heart that includes all of His tendencies, inclinations, propensities and dispositions. By this I mean, the perfections of God cause the like perfections in us - so that the same exercises, in kind, that are in the divine mind, are, by the Spirit, through Christ are begotten in our minds. The exhibition of the nature and attributes of God, as exhibited by the Spirit, transforms us into the same image.

Paul expresses it, in 2 Cor. 3:18; "We all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." The Bible everywhere abounds with declarations and representations to this effect. It represents us as participating deeply, in his exercises, both of holiness and of happiness.

The commandments require perfect and continuous obedience and perfection on pain of death. It only takes one miss step, one sin of commission or one sin of omission to be found ENTIRELY GUILTY of the whole law. The law offers no forgiveness and no grace. The law offers just death and no hope.

The law was the ministration of death, but the New of righteousness and life. 2 Cor. 3:6-16: "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses, for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away; how shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing, then, that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away."

The Life of Christ within us supplies and fulfills all what the law requires by CAUSING God's people to render perfect and continuous obedience.

Everything that He asks us to do, He Himself is the Lord who does that thing. Everything that He asks us to be, He Himself is the Lord who is that one. We are to be just like Him.

The Holy Spirit makes Christ real in us (John 14:16-17,20). Christ lives in me by faith and I am filled with the fullness of God (Eph. 3:17-19). I am complete in Christ (Col. 2:9)

The law demands us to be holy and now we are holy. Don't you know that your body (a clay pot, your earthy vessel or earth suit) is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

The law required a perfect and holy heart. Ezek. 18:31. Christ's life within us provides holiness and gives us His holy heart. This is not just a one time gift but a continual, never ending and never ceasing the giving of HIMSELF to us that just keeps unfolding and expanding.

Christ's life within us is the producing of this perfect and perpetual obedience. This is the grand distinction between the law and Christ's Life within that produces the very temper required by the law.

The law could NEVER secure obedience that it demanded. It left men to the exercise of their own strength but now Christ is our continuous effectual sanctification.

The law could never produce life but now Jesus Christ is our life. Romans 8:2-4, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

The law made nothing perfect. Heb. 7:19, "For the LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God."

We see that the law required the highest perfection that God requires of man, and now we see that this law is now being fulfilled by Christ Himself.

The condition of receiving the Life of Christ is faith - Gal. 3:14: "That the blessing of Abraham, might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit THROUGH FAITH." Now it is impossible that Christ should be received upon any other condition than faith. Without confidence or faith there can be no love; and there cannot be genuine faith that does not produce love.

Now the whole object of God in the Gospel is not to set aside the obedience that the law required, but to bring men into real obedience to it through Christ living, dwelling and abiding within us.

"Christ is my life; I have no other life. Christ is all there is in me." "I am crucified with Christ." That's it. It's done, it's finished, it's over with.

There is no me or self that "needs to die." I have no self to die to. I am already dead to sin. That means that I have no connection to sin and sin has no connection to me. that I am already dead, the work of the cross is 100% complete in my life, and if I can also see that I am still alive, all I can do is what Paul does in Galatians 2:20. "Hey, it's not me, it's Christ, only it's me, only it's Christ."


 2019/9/25 5:32Profile

Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279


I do recommend that everyone read this book - ALL OF GRACE By C.H. SPURGEON.


 2019/9/25 7:04Profile

Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Please, dear brothers and sisters, take note;

Now if what was being proposed was true then that would make the NT verses on us being judged by God for “our works/deeds done in our bodies” a lie..... God is not a man that He should lie- full stop.

It grieved me that the Lord would not allow me to make short work of these postings,... however in observing this thread play out in real time, something the Lord told me after He told me not to engage the poster has now become quite clear:))) He told me; “do not feed it” and while initially that came with enough light to obey, subsequently it has become much clearer why He said that.

Hopefully this will help us to prayerfully consider our obedience before God and man, especially on SI as it has a broad sphere of influence and it’s not just our doctrine and theology that’s being examined, but most certainly our conduct/obedience to God. It is important that if others use our words or example of conduct, that it lead/point them to Christ Jesus🙏🏻 Simply being “good” or quoting scriptures is not enough, like just believing isn’t enough for even the demons believe...

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


 2019/9/25 8:23Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 855

 Re: davidkeel

Hi David,

This battle is not new. It had been waged more than a century ago by J. C. Ryle and his camp against Andrew Murray and the Keswick camp. While theologians in cosy armchairs in comfortable homes condemned them, these teachings were embraced by many missionaries in China, Africa and elsewhere and they found strength and peace to carry on through the difficulties and persecutions they had to endure.

Still, J. C. Ryle, was gracious to say:

……I say in conclusion, let us exercise charity in our judgements of one another. Towards those who think holiness is to be promoted by the modern, so-called ‘spiritual life’ movement, I feel nothing but charity. If they do good, I am thankful. Towards myself and those who agree with me, I ask them to feel charity in return. The last day will show who is right and who is wrong. In the meantime, I am quite certain that to exhibit bitterness and coldness towards those who cannot conscientiously work with us is to prove ourselves very ignorant of real holiness.

(May SI participants note what he said.)

David, what is the difference between your belief and New Age beliefs. They practise such things as meditation and chanting and visualization and believe in the power of the mind and the power of thoughts. I was there. New Age teachings had greatly appealed to me. Then one day I read a book on the power of Eastern chants by a reputable journalist. I tried a simple chant. And, it worked! I should have been elated and marched on. But it frightened me. I cannot explain it. I had to put the book away. I found in my heart a new need to prove once and for all if the Christian God is really real.

I borrowed Josh McDowell’s “The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict” from the library and began to read it. It wasn’t his arguments that convinced me. Not many pages into the book, a tiny detail, surely so uninteresting to man’s intellect, hit me, and Light burst through. When God reveals Himself, it is with power that is not of man and fills the heart with immense peace and joy and the presence of God and love for God. I had no input in that at all. So began my Christian life.

The Christian life I have found is the life of blessed rest in Christ. It is the life of the branch in the Vine told by the Lord Jesus in John 15. It is Christ’s very own life in us enabling us to be exactly as He is, conformed to His image, an exact representation of His being.

There is no other way. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts. God’s ways are infinitely higher than our ways. And God’s work infinitely transcends any of our own. The difference between God and us is the utter difference between water and wine. Only God Himself can give us heavenly wine (John 2).

Yes, faith without works is dead. Our faith is in Christ and our works are the mighty works of Christ Himself in us by His Spirit. We rest in Him. Our confidence is in Him. We draw all things we need for life and work from Him. He Himself is the Fountain of Life we drink from. God says it is evil when we leave God’s Fountain and start to hew for ourselves our own cisterns. God says our cisterns are broken and can hold no water.

Jer. 2:13 –
For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns — broken cisterns that can hold no water.

It is either Christ or us. It is either faith in Christ or faith in ourselves. It is either living and working out of Christ or living and working out of ourselves. When we accept Christ, we deny ourselves.

Yes, we are certainly not yet perfect. We press on to gain Christ. The righteousness of God comes from faith in Christ.

Phil. 3:7-11 –

But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
More than that, I COUNT ALL THINGS TO BE LOSS IN VIEW OF THE SURPASSING VALUE OF KNOWING CHRIST JESUS MY LORD, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so THAT I MAY GAIN CHRIST, and may be found in Him, not HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS of my own derived from the Law, but that which is THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST, THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH COMES FROM GOD ON THE BASIS OF FAITH, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
NOT THAT I HAVE ALREADY OBTAINED IT OR HAVE ALREADY BECOME PERFECT, BUT I PRESS ON so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.


 2019/9/26 3:23Profile

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