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CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 500
Cambodia

 Re:

But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. - 1 Corinthians 9:27


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Robert

 2019/9/23 5:34Profile
cup
Member



Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279


  We are MADE RIGHTEOUS THROUGH CHRIST’S OBEDIENCE

Jade Wrote

"We are MADE RIGHTEOUS THROUGH CHRIST’S OBEDIENCE:"

YES! Let it done done in me according to your word!

For we do walk inside of the flesh, but we do not wage war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but are God-enabled towards the tearing down of fortresses, overthrowing arguments, and every high thing or barrier lifting itself up against the knowledge of God and taking captive every thought into submission to hearing Christ inside of your possession of readiness to dispense justice to all who hear amiss, even when your own submission to
hearing has been made full.


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Vern

 2019/9/23 5:39Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 457
West Sussex, England

 Re:

CofG Robert. I think it's a fruitless discussion as some here don't want to hear things.

2 Tim 3 v 16,17
All Scripture is given ... for doctrine, for reproof... for correction ...
that the - MAN OF GOD - may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't like trying to come across as someone that knows the Scriptures as it was the Lord that showed me some things. I do so to try and share with people that there is a narrow way, a way only reached by taking up our cross daily.

If we are wrong about any part of scripture then we have to listen to what the Scripture says and change our thinking. (This is only to people who are a genuine follower of the teaching of the Bible. A Man Of God according to 2 Timothy.)
If we don't then we are danger of not being recognized by the Lord as a person that is like this.

Some people on this forum don't seem to not want the Lords authority and his Scriptures over us. But even when certain people here have had verses to confront them of the danger of hyper grace, they don't want to listen but have their own fixed agenda.

When I was younger I only believed in walking by grace as the only thing that was pleasing to the Lord. Then I learnt the principle of the verse you have kindly provided. It shocked me that God could want me to use the full force of my will in certain areas at certain times. As I had previously tried to knock out of the way anyone that told me I should use effort in any area of the Christian walk.

2 Peter : make every effort to add to your faith goodness; knowledge; self-control; perseverance; godliness. mutual affection, love... 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


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David Keel

 2019/9/23 7:43Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 535


 Re:

I believe that as wonderful and beautiful it was for Martin Luther to recover the truth of justification by faith and not works, many in modern-day Protestantism think that after we are justified we just wait for Heaven. However, the salvation God offers us in Jesus is not only forgiveness and justification but also deliverance from the power of sin to bear fruit for God. Practical sanctification however is not trying our best to keep the Law. There is a work that God is trying to accomplish in our inner-life by our cooperating with the Holy Spirit. Our hearts need transformation and it is accomplished gradually over time by things like abiding in Christ, walking in the Spirit, reckoning ourselves dead to sin and alive to God, spiritual warfare, living by faith, etc. While this is very different than being "under the law" trying in our own strength to please God, we do need to adopt a strong willingness to be led by the Spirit. Someone said that grace is not opposed to effort but to "earning".

The original post speaks about the Christian trying to bring about practical sanctification in their life by sheer self-effort. This is very reminiscent to what is spoken of in Romans 7. New Testament practical sanctification comes about by our cooperating with the Holy Spirit and does involve willingness to be led. So many threads in this forum wind up being debates about "His part" vs. "our part". Overemphasizing His part becomes "hypergrace" and overemphasizing our part becomes "legalism" or "works righteousness". There is a balance.

-Daniel

 2019/9/23 10:12Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3571
Louisiana

 Re:

"The original post speaks about the Christian trying to bring about practical sanctification in their life by sheer self-effort. This is very reminiscent to what is spoken of in Romans 7. New Testament practical sanctification comes about by our cooperating with the Holy Spirit and does involve willingness to be led. So many threads in this forum wind up being debates about "His part" vs. "our part". Overemphasizing His part becomes "hypergrace" and overemphasizing our part becomes "legalism" or "works righteousness". There is a balance."

Thank you Daniel for bringing in the proper balance to this discussion.

All those that have attempted to conquer sin through self effort and striving in the flesh will certainly find themselves in a Romans 7 scenario. The good news of the gospel is that the grace of God not only is unmerited favor in which we receive forgiveness of sins based on the shed blood of Jesus Christ, but the true grace of God is also the power of God to live a holy life.

Does this mean that we passively wait on God to do everything for us? Not at all, and agreeing with what my brother said, we are to actively use our will and agree with what God has said about our being dead to sin, but alive unto God. We are to exercise faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, working out our salvation with fear and trembling, because it is God that is working in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:12,13)

Being under legalism is a heavy yoke that God has never intended for us to carry, but it seems to me that the pendulum has swung to the other side, and now there is a lot of greasy grace being taught in the church. This kind of teaching that Jesus did it all, and that there is nothing for us to do, that we are still sinners and we will sin every day for our merciful God forgives sin will not produce holiness in our lives.

The true grace of God is this:

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:12).


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Mike

 2019/9/23 12:09Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 500
Cambodia

 Re:

Brother Mike and Daniel,

I was not quoting Paul for the purpose of establishing self effort apart from resting in what Christ has accomplished in us and the imputing and imparting of His righteous life in us. Just trying to counter balance the arguments of others.

Brother Mike, I'm not at all sure that Romans 7 describes a Christian's experience as there are phrases Paul uses in that chapter that elsewhere Paul directly says do not apply to Christians but that is a whole other debate.

What I have heard and read from many is actually a debate about whether the born again Christian is only able to let the life of Christ be lived out of Him ( only a surrendered life ) or whether the surrendered Christian strives, fights, and disciplines himself to be more like Christ. That is, is Christ likeness just a matter of surrender or is Christ likeness also a transformational process of the inner man actually being renewed and conformed to the image of Jesus through and through in mind, emotions and will.

Are we cobuilders and co workers with Christ in the construction of a holy temple ( us and the church ) where He supplies the plans, resources and strength? The apostles thought so. The Trinity, the five fold ministry, the individual and the members of the body are co laborers with each other in building up the individual and the body ( individual and corporate ) into the maturity, the fullness, and the reality of Christ likeness which is the Father's predestined plan for His children. Not just adoption into the family of God but also by transformation in His likeness.

To me, I believe the proper balance is that it is both. We are being transformed at the same time that we surrender to Christ's life flowing through us. To capture an old illustration, the ingrafted branch has the tree's life flowing through it but also, as that life flows through it, the wild shoot is being transformed in its essential nature.

The sanctification process is a passive one and an active one in the strength (life, power, love and holiness) He supplies.

One day we will see Him as He is and be transformed into his likeness completely. We will be like Him and that is incontrovertible.

Along the way during this life, we are beholding Him as He manifests Himself to us by walking with us and through us and through this manifestaion in the walk of a life surrendered to Him, He changes us into His likeness by the Spirit from one glorious manifestation and revelation to the next. That is the Bible

Not either or, but both and. That's the balance that I see in Scripture between the passive and the active and between the life of Christ or the Christ like life.






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Robert

 2019/9/23 18:46Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


 Re:

Vern and Jade,
I do not want to cause a debate on what I am going to ask you, by any means, .. but are you settled down into the OSAS denomination, position ?
Just wondering.....


Another question:
Do you believe in ‘just Jesus’, .... or
‘The Jesus’ , who is The Word, and who has spoken / preached many sermons , .. for all to hear, and to adhear to ?

If we are a believer in this Jesus Christ, The Word, ...this ‘every Word of God is very pure, therefore thy servant loveth it’,.. ‘Thy Word That is a Lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path’ ,....and man does not live (or,have Life) by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God,..

The Fathers Word flowed out of the mouth of Jesus.
*This is the True Jesus.

This Jesus,... this Word, ..Which is The Holy Spirit of God,Comes into us to Live in us,... (to resurrect)... to , not I, to live, ...not us, to do our own way, but us to surrender our life in exchange for the Life, .. eternal Life of God),but He, His Life,.. His will to be ,surrendered to ....resurrect, .....,.Resurrection, Life.
——————
Rom.11:22,
“ Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, ‘if’ thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”
—————-

Yes, ...The Jesus who is “I Am The Way,” ...
He has taught us His Way, (The Way), in all the Words That The Father gave Him to say,... preached to us,....that narrow Way

“I Am The Truth” , All His Words He said to us,..to all people is “Truth”

“I AmThe Life” ..... Eternal everlasting Life,..

Do we want this “Life” ?
...He offers us Life and that more abundantly.
Then we must go in His “Way” , Which is through His Truth”
In order to have His Life, .living,.. resurrecting in us.
——————
His Word, which is in us,.. The Holy Spirit of The Living God, comes up from within us onto our tongue, ....our help in time of need.... a fountain of Living Water.
—————-
elizabeth

 2019/9/23 23:30Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 749
Australia

 Re: Elibeth


Jesus Himself is the Word of God (John 1:1-2,14).
He is the Word of Life (1 John 1:1).
Scriptures speak of Him (John 5:39-40; Luke 24:27,44-45; 1 Cor. 2:2).
So, let us read the Bible to see Jesus only.
Everything that He asks us to do, He Himself is the Lord who does that thing.
Everything that He asks us to be, He Himself is the Lord who is that one.
We are to be just like Him.
The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ and takes what is Christ’s and declares it to us (John 16:14).
The Holy Spirit makes Christ real in us (John 14:16-17,20).
Christ lives in me by faith and I am filled with the fullness of God (Eph. 3:17-19).
I am complete in Christ (Col. 2:9-10).

Elizabeth, if East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet, let us agree to disagree.

As for OSAS, I genuinely do not know what that is. The Spirit of Christ who leads me has led me to Christ alone, and, has led me to NONE of these doctrines of men. I am interested in scripture alone. I stand on scripture alone. And, I will discuss scripture alone.

Blessings



_________________
Jade

 2019/9/24 3:24Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


 Re:

Re:Jade:
“Everything that He asks us to do, He Himself is the Lord who does that thing.
Everything that He asks us to be, He Himself is the Lord who is that one.”
———————

Lk.6:46,
“¶ And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and ‘do not’ the things which I say?”
—————-
Lk.19:20-23,
Note: Jesus is giving a parable of the kingdom of God,...
..a man comes to earth,... gives out portions to men,to see what they will “DO” with the gift that He gives to them,.. and then returns to heaven , a King,..
(Jn.18:37,
“ ¶ Pilate therefore said unto him, ‘Art thou a king’ then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am ‘a king’. ‘To this end was I born’ ,and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

Lk.19:20-23,
“ ¶ And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?”
——-
Then the results of that >>>>

Lk.19:27,
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
———-
Note: there be some that will not allow the King, who is Jesus to reign over them.... pray,... let it not be us, ...
———-
He comes to earth,.... gives gifts,.. portions to men, returns to where He came,A King over this heavenly Kingdom,....
—————-
elizabeth

 2019/9/24 4:44Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1446
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

:


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Fletcher

 2019/9/24 4:48Profile





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