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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : tongues

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Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Well I haven't read your link because I have to go to bed.. (going to a biblecamp tomorrow and have to get up early)
Well I know there are 2 types of tongues in the Bible. One is where everyone from other countries can understand eachother. And another where the person who speaks in tongues doesn't even know what he himself is saying.

I don't think I get your point why you don't want to speak in tongues.
But whatever you decide it is no matter of life and death. Caring for the unsaved, getting close to Jesus and more has higher priority.

I will read your link when I get back from camp.
Ask God to take your doubt (if you have any) away and to lead you. God bless! :-)

ps.. not that I know alot about the subject, but I'm curious about it.


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Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/7/10 17:14Profile
arbustum
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 96
Sydney Australia

 Re: tongues

well, whenever i've spoken in toungues my spirit has known it and if i questioned it, the thought would sit correctly with my spirit, but there have been times when i have really listened to my spirit and it's told me that alot of that was just babble, me trying to seek after God in a language of his spirit in me -to heaven, but really i've been too desperate and my spirit has said, you forced that... now, tongues for me is not only a sheer expression of glorification towards God that surrenders your spirit in passion to storm heaven, but also a means to access heaven, when i dont feel like it. when my feelings are holding me back and im not desperate to grasp God and really seek God i try to speak in tongues -in heaven's language i guess,- to glorify God out of my situation, then he's honoured me for it and true toungues rolled out of me. its always been the heart behind it for me; the real reason you're trying to speak tongues in the first place, i dont know how it is for you but the above i just typed sits well in my spirit. its up to God to tell you, But in the first place, its your call to seek God and ask for him to reveal whether what you're doing is the real deal or not... wow what a long text, just got typing eh... lol


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holly

 2005/7/11 2:25Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

Oh well this seems to be such a popular topic I thought I'd chime in. I have never spoken in tongues, or seen someone do so, however, whatever it is, it is clearly in Scripture. Chuck Missler has a great commentary on the subject, and always seems to find things in Scripture that people miss:

http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP026/

Missler says that both "sides" of the tongues debate are wrong (that should make you want to listen).

I would consider Ravenhill to be the most reliable advocate as of late. He said that tongues were legitimate, as was interpretation. He said interpretation was very rare. From that statement, I would have to think from the amount of people claiming they have this gift, that many are not genuine.

The gift of tongues is being abused just as are other spiritual things. God said that even the table of the Lord could be a snare and a trap. Any focus on anything but Him is wrong. Spurgeon explained how people abused Calvinism by sitting back and letting God doing the work. Freewill is abused by one thinking that it is completely up to them for people to be converted, while Finney explained that workers are just the means of the Holy Spirit using someone. Baptism is abused by people focusing on the tank more than God. They don't want to talk to anyone who isn't big on baptism, while Paul said, "I came not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." This list could be endless.

Tongues and other doctrines are abused for 4 reasons in my opinion. People forget or ignore:

1) God's primary commandment, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength (first half of commandments of Moses)

2) God's secondary commandment, Love your neighbor as yourself (second half of commandments of Moses)

3) God's commission, Preach the gospel to every creature. Commission appears in all four gospels and in Acts. [b]2% of Christians actually do this[/b].

4) To study Scripture and pray. Many open their mouth who do not personally seek God, and read His message to us as a part of their life.

Disagree if you will, but I think many are messed up because they are not heeding the above. I don't think anyone will have the Holy Spirit poured out on them in the form of a spiritual gift if they are not speaking up for God. Why would God put his seal of approval on someone who is not trying to win anyone to Christ. Read through the New Testament and you will never see someone lifted up for a spiritual gift. God exalts those who speak up for Him to the lost: John Baptist did, Christ, the disciples, Paul, etc etc.

So the gift of tongues is Scriptural, and real, but it is causing more problems that all the other gifts. Satan turns things upside down from what Jesus preached. It seems from some posts that some who advocate tongues see them in perspective, while others exalt them to an un-Scriptural status. Let us remember to exalt Christ, brothers, so that when He is lifted up, He will draw all men to Him.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/7/11 21:23Profile
Jimotheus
Member



Joined: 2005/7/8
Posts: 53


 Re: tongues

Grace, peace, and love be multiplied:

I think the first thing that we all as Christians should understand it that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are indeed, the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That means that these gifts were not the gifts of the apostles, but the gifts of the Spirit. This should clear up any idea that the gifts (as some teach) "died" with the apostles. Secondly, since the spiritual gifts come from the Holy Spirit, they do not cause confusion, but edification. Only people cause the confusion. Some believers who may have been sincere, but misguided in the use of a gift have caused many to concluded that these thing are not real, or they are not for us today, how sad. I say sad because I know that many precious brethren in some denominations have been sculptured and taught horrible things against the true gifts of the Holy Spirit which has only robbed these precious believers from experiencing all that God has for his children. Tell me you who do not believe that the gifts are for the church today: If the Father in heaven had a wonderful gift for you, and he really wanted you to have it, wouldn't you want to recieve it to his glory? Of course you would. It is the Fathers good pleasure to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him. I know that at convertion every believer has the Holy Spirit on the inside, but what Christ refered to was the fullness of the blessing in Spirit baptizm as the early church received on the day of Pentecost. God said that he would "poor out of my Spirit, and your sons and your daughter will prophesy." This promise was not only for those of the first century, but "unto as many as the Lord our God shall call." Another point to bear in mind is on the day of Pentecost, the bible says, "and there came a sound from HEAVEN as of a mighty rushing wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting." Notice, this sound came "from heaven" not from some man, or some Pentecostal, or Charsmatic denomination. The baptizm in the Holy Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit were God's idea and plan, not of man. So my incouragement to those of you who have not recieved the baptizm in the Holy Spirit; ask in faith believing for it is the Father's good pleasure to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. The only requirement to recieving is to be saved. If you have been truly born-again, you are a candidate to be endued with power from on high. Maranatha!!! :-)

 2005/7/13 0:24Profile









 Re:

The past 3 or 4 posts were true, and great comments. But will anyone confront what ive been saying??? Or just avoid it and let it cause a confusion in me.?

Honestly, ALL the gifts except this 'prayer language' is in the OT. Is today's 'tounges' as Pentacostals and Charasmatics preach, true to the bible? or was is TRULY just a language? (which is what im kinda saying).

I don't need to repeat my stance on the tounges, but i will for those who have just joined in. I DO pray in tounges, but wait on God for Him to give me utterance, there have been like 2-3 times where God just SHOUTED tounges thru me when demonic forces came enclosing in. (I also had a link in the past of my stance on tounges,im just bringing up another stance to test and try it...and see if its of God)

But, is tounges truly a 'heavenly' prayer language, or just a language that SOMEONE knows...??

Peace clearify this with scripture. Philogos? Greg?? Anyone!!

 2005/7/13 0:54
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

YeshuaIsMyGod,
I believe that the understanding you are bringing up concerning tongues, that of being a real language, can happen and that's awesome. I know of one man from Mozambique who supernaturally learned like 12 languages like that without any training. The moment he came to a new village he instantly got the native language.
But 1 Cor. 14:2 seems to make it very clear that this is not the exclusive understanding of tongues.

1 Cor. 14:2
"For one who speaks in a tongue [b]does not speak to men[/b], but to God; for [b]no one understands[/b], but in his spirit [b]he speaks mysteries[/b]."

 2005/7/13 1:03Profile
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

One of the dillemmas that we face today is that the epistles were occasional letters; therefore, they dealt with the problems of the day and with the exception of the abuse of tongues by the Corinthians, there was no need for the apostles to dwell on this topic in their letters.

Personally, while speaking in tongues speaks mysteries to God, I don't think this can support the view that it's a secret language the devil can't understand as though if he knew what we were saying we'd be in trouble.

Here's a link to some sermons by George O. Wood, a man in the Assembly of God denomination whom I deeply respect, that might help you out:

[url=http://www.georgeowood.com/templates/lit02re/details.asp?id=22125&PID=52838]The Holy Spirit[/url]

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/7/13 1:03Profile









 Re:

When i find time to listen to that audio, or read that article..w/e it is ;) i will do so. :)

1 Cor. 14:2
"For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries."

now...keep this all in context...

If we all spoke in Hebrew. And i started to speak in English. What would you Hebrew speakers be saying of me? That i speak 'mysteries'. That i speak of things that you know, and only God knows.

Now, i bet you all have been on a missions trip...dont you get a sorta feeling about these tounges when your there??

I do, thats why i brought this up.

What does the scripture mean by 'mind being unfruitful'? Well, think of it this way, when i speak to you, is my mind being fruitful? Yes, your eating the fruit of my words. But when i speak to you in spanish (another language) is our conversataion, or even my mind fruitful? No. how can it be?

This story that is above, 12 languages. That's what i am starting to believe is tounges. Not some 'prayer language'.

To say tounges is a prayer language, by ONE verse, is doing the bible injustice. No doctrine was ever created from God by ONE VERSE. Trinity, hell, heaven, Power, Gifts, Salvation. ETc. Was it one verse these all came into existance? NO!

So, again, the challenge is up. I know the Pentacostal's stance on this. Heck i go to a Charasmatic/Pentacostal church. Vineyard....

I love my church, but yet Tounges is something that needs more biblical proof on. (From TODAY's Pentacostal teaching).

Again, i do speak in tounges, but, i dont see the point or fruit in it....SCRIPTURALLY.

 2005/7/13 1:13
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

I would venture to answer many of your points here but they are all dealt with in the link I provided better than what answers I could give.


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/7/13 1:21Profile









 Re:

Here is a link on the 'other' stance. (Tounges is JUST a nature language, not some 'prayer' language)

http://biblestudy.org/maturart/tongues.html

Oh, keep in mind, its kinda long.

 2005/7/13 1:41





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