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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5608
NC, USA

 Re:

The RCC is dangerous because it makes it very difficult for those in it to come to true saving faith. If they do, it is in spite of and not because of RCC ways and means.

Catholics that I have known make fun of "those born agains." They do not even realize that the origin of that term is Jesus himself. When you show them this they are amazed! Of course I am not saying EVERY catholic does not know this but many many do not.


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Todd

 2017/9/22 7:13Profile









 Re:

Marvin writes.........

"Speaking in the abstract about doctrinal differences in this group is preaching to the choir, it would be hard to find a dissenter on this subject."

The only reason I am involved in this discussion is because of the assertion that catholics are Christians on this forum. What is preaching to the choir is how you share the gospel with those who are not saved..............bro Frank

 2017/9/22 8:33
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:


If one things clearly about this before the 1500's all believers were in either the orthodox or roman catholic church, and before 1054 there was just essentially one Church. There were smaller orthodox groups but the majority was part of the whole for the first 1000 years. So there were many godly leaders in all groups before AD 1500 then the reformation happened and godly leaders arose out of the roman catholic church choosing a different way.

So we have to realize that there was church history before the reformation, there were genuine leaders before that time also. Church history does not start with Luther or skip from Paul to Luther. It is a challenge to all believers to read Church history in an unbiased fashion.

Many catholics I am sure are stunned at the ignorance of some "evangelicals" over basic beliefs of the early church as the "evangelical" is over the fact of their accepting some extra-biblical traditions formed mainly after the reformation in reaction to the polarization and opposition.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/9/22 8:36Profile









 Re:

Mike writes........

"Frank, this might have happened in Scotland, but the vast majority of Catholics that were being saved during this great outpouring of the Spirit in the late 60's and early 70's had a true baptism of the Holy Spirit."

Yes Mike, and the vast majority of catholics who get saved come out of her and those who stay, typically stay in ignorance and fall back. Would you advise a mormon or a jehovah's witness to stay in their church if they got saved? What about a muslim? I have actually heard that taught.........bro Frank

 2017/9/22 8:37









 Re:

Greg, who were the millions that were martyred prior to 1500 and who was killing them and what were so called Godly men saying about this? I would agree that there is much ignorance about who and what was the church prior to 1500 and it typically falls along the lines of those who have, for the most part, only read catholic history...........bro Frank

 2017/9/22 8:41
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Brother/s, I know of at least two movements prior to the 1500s that were persecuted and many martyred by the RCC (the Waldenses of the 1100s and the Lollards of the 1300s).

I have not read the book The Pilgrim Church by E.H. Broadbent but I understand it seeks to give a history of Christians outside the RCC from the 4th century onward. I think Frank and maybe others have read that book. Maybe they can comment on it if they’re led.


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Oracio

 2017/9/22 11:11Profile









 Re:

Hi Oracio,

Yes, I have read that book and others, many others, and it is incredible to read of the Church down through the ages. It is estimated that over 50 million saints were murdered by the catholic church. I want everyone to just sit and ponder that a second, 50 million. Whole groups, villages, towns wiped out because they refused to bow the knee to Rome. The deadliest enemy of the Word of God and the saints of God has been the catholic church and will be again when it leads the great whore church made up of the fallen away. There is a great delusion falling upon the minds of men, men given to religion, and they are being fleshed out by the times in which we live.........bro Frank

 2017/9/22 12:31
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Thanks Frank. I really want to read that book soon now Lord willing. It has many good reviews on Amazon.


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Oracio

 2017/9/22 12:37Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Quote:
I have not read the book The Pilgrim Church by E.H. Broadbent but I understand it seeks to give a history of Christians outside the RCC from the 4th century onward. I think Frank and maybe others have read that book. Maybe they can comment on it if they’re led.



Brother,

I have read this book many times and have also encouraged it to others throughout many years. Over the last 5 years or so I have drawn back from overly promoting it. One thing I have noticed is that many of the groups given or compiled where not orthodox (right) groups but had at times severe deviant doctrines, it would be like adopting seventh-day aventists as evangelicals or another cult-like group.

So we can look at a group like the "Bogomils" which are one of the groups labeled as the "remnant" in the Pilgrim Church book, but a look at their beliefs draws some large question marks.

Also the easy quoting of 50 million martyred or millions during the dark ages is very hard to proof and alot it I have become critical of and am doing deeper research before I can quote this myself. If you look at the population of europe population stats during the middle ages it seems hard to believe the numbers of martyrs that are given. here is a rough population for europe:

1000 56.4
1100 62.1
1200 68.0
1250 72.9
1300 78.7
1350 70.7
1400 78.1
1450 83.0
1500 90.7

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography


Many were killed also by wars and more secular powers and even orthodox and catholics were killed.

Just as today the majority of martyrs are orthodox in the middle east which we think are all evangelical as open doors and others share their stories and prayer requests. Sometimes the truth is clouded or at least the thought for these persecution ministries is if someone is martyred for faith in Jesus they are going to heaven very possibly no matter what their affilation.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/9/22 13:33Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Oracio ,

The
THE PILGRIM CHURCH is online : http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html

John W. Kennedy : " The Torch of the Testimony" is another book that is about "The 2000 year history of those Christians - and churches- that have stood outside the Protesent - Catholic Tradition.

MARTYRS MIRROR is also online :
http://homecomers.org/mirror/


 2017/9/22 13:39Profile





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