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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are you a liar?

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:


What is the accuracy of "current days prophets"?
such a low percentage that they had to change the
meaning of the word 'prophecy' to accommodate
our actual current day reality.

Even one of the "best of them" like D. Wilkerson has
so many failed prophecies to his name it is troubling
to admit for some.



No body has changed the meaning of prophesy. You seem to be ignorant of New Covenant prophesy. Old Covenant Prophesy was given to warn Israel of the attack of enemies. Take the example of the ministry of Elisha.
2 Kings 8 & 9 :-And the man of God sent word to the king of Israel saying, “Beware that you do not pass this place, for the Arameans are coming down there.”

Now the ministry of God's prophets in New Covenant is to warn the Church of the spiritual attack of enemies. This kind of prophesy will only edify and build the church as stated in 1 Corinthians. How will CHurch be build by someone predicting some war? Because many do not see the beauty of Church, they do not see the purpose of this great ministry. For such people predicting the future is great thing, but seeing Church being edified is not important. That is why such worthless arguments are placed saying people are changing the meaning of Prophesy!

Think about it - 1 Cor 14-24:- But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an [l]ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

How do you think the secrets of one's heart will be disclosed if the entire Church was predicting the future? But if they were prophesying about spiritual warnings then the newcommer's secret of heart will be disclosed.

If we learn to value the CHurch then the real Prophesy will be of great value compared to Old Covenant Prophesy. There is no wonder that those who still do old Covenant Prophesy have failed miserably, including David Wilkerson, who was a man of God.

So many times, people have asked me how I know exactly what spiritual need they have when I shared the word in the Church. I only give the credit to God. It cannot be done by human intelligence. Once even a new comer came to me and expressed the same.


Quote:

right, but what does that mean? Of course everyone can
verbally say that. Do they then all have the Holy Spirit?



They were people who accepted Jesus as Lord through the Power of Holy Spirit but never actually lived a life worth of yielding completely to Jesus. Most of the born again Christians who accept Jesus as Lord, do not start immediately to yield everything in their life to Jesus. It is a progressive sanctification. Self or money will still be in throne. It was same for me as well. Though I was born again by the Power of Holy Spirit, it was not that I immediately lived a life with Jesus being the Lord of my entire life. But I coming from Hindu background could not have forsaken those Hindu Idols without the Holy Spirit. But forsaking the inner idols took time and was progressive work of the Holy Spirit.

If they never accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, then they were mocking Jesus by calling him Lord. This makes Jesus a mockable figure! Either way this interpretation of yours is erroneous. Like I said, no other interpretation fits the entire context of Matthew 7:21.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/10 11:19Profile









 Re:

"""""""Most of the born again Christians who accept Jesus as Lord, do not start immediately to yield everything in their life to Jesus. It is a progressive sanctification. Self or money will still be in throne. It was same for me as well. Though I was born again by the Power of Holy Spirit, it was not that I immediately lived a life with Jesus being the Lord of my entire life. But I coming from Hindu background could not have forsaken those Hindu Idols without the Holy Spirit. But forsaking the inner idols took time and was progressive work of the Holy Spirit. """""""""


Brother Sree, thank you for sharing part of your testimony. It is very encouraging to hear that we are a work in progress, growing up into Jesus, even when we are still faulty in areas. Praise God that Jesus is long suffering towards us. May we continue to grow and walk in humility...and thank you for the times you were obedient to the Lord to speak what He led you to say. All glory goes to Jesus alone. Amen

 2017/8/10 12:05
Man0fG0d
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 174


 Re:

Jesus Christ and His Apostles preached against OSAS

James 5:19-20 KJVS
BRETHREN, if any of YOU do ERR from the TRUTH, and one CONVERT HIM[20] Let him know, that he which CONVERTETH THE SINNER from the error of his way shall SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH and shall hide a multitude of sins.


_________________
Elijah

 2017/8/10 12:07Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3304
Texas

 Re:

“Is James talking about backsliding believers, or is he talking about evangelizing those who do not know Christ?” The first part of verse 19 would indicate that James is talking about believers (“My brethren, if any among you strays…”). But when verse 20 talks about saving his soul from death, it sounds like saving a soul from hell.

Some assume that James is talking only about believers. Since believers cannot lose their salvation, they interpret verse 20 as saving the person from physical death as God’s discipline for sin. The other approach, which I believe to be correct, is to say that James is writing to the church, but he knows that there are some in the church that have made professions of faith, but they are not genuinely saved. This fits with the overall theme of James, which is to emphasize that true saving faith is not just to make a decision or to say, “I believe in Jesus.” True saving faith always, necessarily results in a life of good works.


_________________
Bill

 2017/8/10 12:39Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Thanks Elijah, I never saw James 5:19 and 20 as an argument against OSAS. It appears that it is very clear here.

Quote:

Some assume that James is talking only about believers. Since believers cannot lose their salvation, they interpret verse 20 as saving the person from physical death as God’s discipline for sin.



This is the classic example of interpreting the scripture though one's theology rather then allowing God's word to dictate theology!

Quote:


but they are not genuinely saved.



Why were they not genuinely saved? Was it their mistakes or God decided not to save them?
Why is James calling them Brethren if they were still unsaved and living in Sin? I believe to call someone brother means they are actually fellow brothers of Jesus, born again in God's family.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/10 12:48Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

Brothers and Sisters,

This has gotten out of hand. In what way are we seeking to edify one another? Is anyone in this thread willing to listen or are they just jumping to their already "perfect" understanding of the scriptures?

This is ridiculous. If a worldly person came in here, they would not be able to identify us as disciples of Jesus because we are not showing much (if any) love for one another.


Check your hearts. If you are going to enter into this discussion, then it needs to be in another form that isn't point-counterpoint. No one here is going to change their beliefs today using that methodology.


If we can all agree that we are going to listen to one another, seek the Lord, and allow him to lead us in this discussion, then it will be fruitful. If none of you are willing to do so, then this is pointless.

 2017/8/10 13:05Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Yea I think we got a bit sidetracked here and now one
error leads to the next error. It really doesn't help to
address more than 1 point in a post, it's just too complicated
for anyone to follow 3 leads at the same time.

What was this here originally all about?

Ah yes, "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him,
and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the
Spirit which he hath given us". 1 John 3:24

 2017/8/10 22:04Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

This has gotten out of hand. In what way are we seeking to edify one another? Is anyone in this thread willing to listen or are they just jumping to their already "perfect" understanding of the scriptures?




I am blessed by this thread. I have also acknowledged in my previous post how the scripture posted by Elijah was something I have not seen before in that light.

I am also blessed by the discussion I have had with A-servant on Matthew 7-21. I really appreciate his efforts to address the 3 points I have posted here. I may not agree with his views but it will help me to understand the alternate line of thinking. What really annoys me is those who hold a view and does not care to defend it even when proved unscriptural. There is nothing wrong in defending one's understanding, Jesus himself did that. It is in fact Pharisees who said, I do not know and walked away without defending their understanding. Neither did they acknowledge the wisdom in the argument presented by Jesus. I see many Pharisees here!

Quote:

If we can all agree that we are going to listen to one another, seek the Lord, and allow him to lead us in this discussion, then it will be fruitful. If none of you are willing to do so, then this is pointless.



When was the last time you did it? I can testify to that so many times. I can honestly say before God that I have come here with teachable spirit. If anyone can prove any of my point is wrong based on scripture then I am willing to change. But I have rarely witnessed a teachable spirit here.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/10 22:39Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

Just so everyone knows, so that I am not appearing to be devious or deceptive. I am emailing a response to Sree. If Sree wants to post it regarding this, then that's fine, but I am trying to not spark and uproar over this. Thanks!

 2017/8/11 13:27Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

As I was reading down this list of liars I recognized something from my past. What I recognized was my own zealousness to completely overstate my case. In this case, I believe the O.P in his zealousness overstated the case to the point of error and damaging exaggeration. Every failure to meet the demands of the law or the commands to live a life of imitation of Christ is handled rather poorly and condemns all of us as if we are bastards and not sons. All my sins, though they are many and repeated do not and cannot be the determiner of my sonship. For as soon as I make my performance to the law or the commands of the new covenant as the litmus test for sonship there would be no sons of God, and the O.P would not be absent from the punishment of his own judgment.
We are all exhorted to live a life of holiness and no godly person here would deny that, but this post goes beyond scripture in its result, ( though I do not question the intent was sincere and godly). The result was condemning those whom God has justified by faith, not by performance. To adhere to this O.P use of "liar" would in effect denounce the whole body of Christ including himself and relegate the work of God being done in all of us as a patent failure.
Zeal and desire for truth, willingness to obey and speak it regardless of how others might like it or not is the mark of a man of God. But there are other marks of godly maturity, one of them being that the word of God is also used as a scalpel and not just as a bludgeoning sword in every occasion. Here I see zeal without the wisdom to articulate it.
Someone might disagree with my opinion and no doubt there will be some but what is very apparent is when the word is misapplied, it generates strife and division amongst those who are truly seeking God and know the chastening of God, that those he loves he rebukes and chastens. The key to growth in holiness is the knowledge that God loves me, that I am his son and my failures are not the sum and substance of my life. I am not a liar and false because I failed my brother's personalized litmus test for Christianity.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/8/25 12:14Profile





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