SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are you a liar?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Sree, You missed the point that Savanah was making.

"Jesus didn't say the words that Sree is putting/adding to the words Jesus said. He plainly says, "I NEVER knew you..."

The point is 'NEVER',They were NEVER His.


_________________
Dave

 2017/8/9 11:27Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

Sree,

Can I ask you a question. Who is completing salvation in you? Is it you or is it the Lord?

 2017/8/9 12:05Profile
Man0fG0d
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 174


 Re:

Hey dave,

Thanks, I appreciate that. Dave is pretty cool as well.

What don't the Scriptures say? Please re-read the verses in Malachi 3. God plainly called them robbers because they were not paying tithes. He even said they had brought a curse upon their nation. Robbers don't go to heaven, the Scripture from 1 cor 6 was to illustrate that.

Where was tithing abolished? Where does it say it is only to the levites? Did not Abraham pay tithes before the law was established? Did Jesus do away with tithing?

If those verses do not apply to us because they Are OT, do verses like Isaiah 40:31, 54:17 not apply to us as well? Does lev 18:22 no longer apply? Where the bible says when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord would raise up a standard against him, is not available for Is today?

In Malachi where He said

Malachi 3:11,16 KJV
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts. [16] Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it , and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord , and that thought upon his name.

Does the book of remembrance only for the levites as well?

Dave, I am not trying to be critical, but Where do we draw the line?

Also, no disrepect intended, but I noticed once again while explaining the Scripture, you posted no Scripture.


The Bible says the just shall live by faith. How do we get faith? Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the Word of God.


Thanks so much for your input.


_________________
Elijah

 2017/8/9 12:41Profile
Man0fG0d
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 174


 Re:

Sree, havok, heydave, tmk, and everyone else that has commented,

Thank you all for your time and input. I appreciate it. I made another thread, if you haven't seen it yet, I ask you to head on over( it's in the Scriptures and doctrine section) and check it out. Your input is valuable, thanks again. God bless.


_________________
Elijah

 2017/8/9 12:43Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

"Jesus didn't say the words that Sree is putting/adding to the words Jesus said. He plainly says, "I NEVER knew you..."

The point is 'NEVER',They were NEVER His.



Sorry sir, you are wrong here. The point is not NEVER. The point is 'KNOW' as I have shown to Savanah. You are interpreting 'know' as 'his'. Anyone can interpret 'know' as anything. For example someone can say 'I never KNEW you' means 'I never created you', this is because Jesus being God should know all his creations! Now even this interpretation is logical. But fails with rest of the passages. It is not in line with the complete incidence.

Same way your interpretation of 'not his' also fails to match with rest of the passages said about them. We cannot write a theology by removing a word out of context. It has to fit with the context.

1. The context here is clear based on verse 20, Jesus here is talking about those who lack the fruits but have amazing gifts and did mighty things. He is teaching us not to be carried away with gifts. If he is talking about unbelievers who were never born again from verse 21 then it does not fit into the context of verse 20. HENCE FAILED.

2. They called Jesus LORD. Let us see what the scripture says about those who call Jesus Lord -

1 Cor 12-3:-Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” EXCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Hence they should have received the Holy Spirit. Which proves that they are born again at some stage.

3. They did mighty things which are inline with Gifts of the Spirit, done in JESUS NAME. If they never did them but just mocked those gifts then why did Jesus did not deny what they said about mighty works? If they did using some other source of power, then why did they say they did in JESUS NAME? How can Jesus be mocked when He comes for the 2nd time with Power? So they are not mockers as conventionally believed by OSAS group! Hence failed.

Can anyone here who believes that they were never saved, give me a satisfactory answer to all the 3 points? I am not willing to believe in any interpretation of the word 'I never knew you', that misses the context and other scriptures. I am sorry I am not a one who gives up the scriptures to satisfy my theology!

Here is my explanation of 'I never Knew you', which will be inline with rest of the scripture. Like TMK pointed out, Knew is the same as 'Adam Knew Eve'. It is that intimate relationship that Adam had with Eve to give her a child. Jesus is saying you and I never had that intimate relationship. Not everyone who calls himself a Christian, who claims to believe in Jesus have this intimate walk with Jesus. A walk in which one is willing to consider everything as loss compared to know him (Phil 3:8). It is that kind of walk that they were missing. But they received the gifts and calling which are irrevocable even though they never had an intimate walk with Jesus.



_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/9 19:17Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Sree, when 'logic' is the master the reasoning has to fail
eventually. If you stumble over one word "Never" and
reinterpret it you force yourself into error along the way.

Better way is to believe what is written, exactly as it says,
and THEN start reasoning why that can be so, as it is said.

Faith first, reason is the servant, not the master

One possibility of false logic:

"3. They did mighty things which are inline with Gifts of the Spirit, done in JESUS NAME. If they never did them but just mocked those gifts then why did Jesus did not deny what they said about mighty works? If they did using some other source of power, then why did they say they did in JESUS NAME?"

Jesus does the mighty things in Jesus Name. Not the gifts.
Gifts are not there to apply them according to human will,
we are only servants, not the initiater of God's will,
nor vessels of power - That would be "christian magic".







 2017/8/9 21:26Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

Faith first, reason is the servant, not the master




I believe the faith here is on the theology OSAS rather than God's word. Faith is to believe everything that God said is true irrespective of whether it suits OSAS theory or not. I think this fundamental faith is lacking here. In this case your interpretation is totally against the context and interest of the word of God. If your interpretation is against the context and intention of God's word, then it is a plain lie spread to suit OSAS theory!

Quote:

Jesus does the mighty things in Jesus Name. Not the gifts.
Gifts are not there to apply them according to human will,
we are only servants, not the initiater of God's will,
nor vessels of power - That would be "christian magic".



I agree, this is God's intention to use the Gift. But that does not mean God will physically restrict man from using his Gift for personal gains. No it is not true.

Paul clearly agrees that he could use his gifts to please men. It is a battle of everyone who has gifts, they can use it to please men or please God. As a person who is considered as a gifted speaker of God's word, I can testify to it. Also we have witnessed so many men of God who started with a very gifted ministry and later fell to money and fame. Their gift is still operational, but not in a way to please God.

Gal 1:10-Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/9 21:41Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

I'm strongly againts OSAS teaching,
and you are reasonging against what Jesus said,
I'm not sure where you want to go with this.

one thing I forgot to tell you, I read the first post
you posted after you told the forum about your
"new blessing" a few weeks ago. Only savannah
replied to your "new insight" that basically tried
to corrrect the Bible on a very wellknown scripture,
you argued on having received "the true meaning"
of it, which was contrary to what the Bible actually
says in plain words. It's not coincidence, did you
ever reflect on that? Did you even notice?

 2017/8/9 22:26Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

you are reasonging against what Jesus said,
I'm not sure where you want to go with this.




What ever I have said here is backed up with scripture and context of Matt 7:21. We both are arguing against different interpretations of what Jesus said. My interpretation is backed by scripture and context. If anyone else disagrees with me then they have to answer the 3 points I have posted here to backup my interpretation. I do not see anyone having any valid reasoning here against those 3 points, which proves how unscriptural their interpretation is. Otherwise it is plain pride that prevents them from accepting the truth that I have posted here.
Let God alone be true and every man be liar here.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/9 23:31Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

2 .no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” EXCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.

right, but what does that mean? Of course everyone can
verbally say that. Do they then all have the Holy Spirit?

But not everyone accepts His authority in all things.
What does it mean to have a Lord above oneself?
Listen to him, and obey him. Verbatim. He is always right.

He is the Lord, we are not little lords that correct his words.

Neither do we move the Holy Spirit to act on
our command. We get moved to act by Him:

For example gift of prophecy

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the
Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

What is the accuracy of "current days prophets"?
such a low percentage that they had to change the
meaning of the word 'prophecy' to accommodate
our actual current day reality.

Even one of the "best of them" like D. Wilkerson has
so many failed prophecies to his name it is troubling
to admit for some.

 2017/8/10 6:14Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy