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••• People can't even agree today that Christ will return to Jerusalem from whence He left and returned. •••
People can't even agree that Christ is going to return period. Even evangelicals doubt the literal return of Jesus Christ.
| 2017/8/7 12:29|
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Let us please quit comparing ourselves by ourselves.
Levying the claim of "False Prophet", "False Teacher", and "False Convert" are all SERIOUS accusations against an individual. There are some things that can be taught that are CLEARLY wrong. When an individual teaches something that is incorrect that does not automatically make them a wolf. It makes them wrong. There must be a consistent pattern of wicked behavior. Go look at the scriptures--every false prophet or false teaching ALSO came with licentiousness and wicked behavior. It was driven by greed, by lust, by self-ambition.
There are NO false prophets who DO what the Bible says. They may look like they do on the outside, but they miss all the mercy, all the grace, all the love for the brethren and the Lord. Their fruit is bad, because they are a bad tree.
I don't think anyone on this forum knows John MacArthur on a personal level. None of the things he has said about himself warrants the belief that the fruit that he bears is bad.
Lastly, there is no rock-solid, black-and-white test that is a predictor of the hearts of men. I do know individuals who taught bad doctrine, who did wicked things, and yet, upon following through with Matthew 18 and similar passages, they repented and were set straight. Turns out they were believers and were deceived. Could that REALLY happen??? Yes. Just go read 1 and 2 Corinthians back to back and see what that looks like. If every person who believed/said/taught something that was not exactly right was scrutinized like this, then every one of us would be condemned.
So, my solution to this problem we are seeing in this forum is this: Discuss the issues. Leave people out of it. If there is enough biblical evidence to suggest that they may be a false prophet, then maybe it can be brought up (only if it edifies the church)--but let's bring it up from a position of humility rather than accusing them of being a false prophet--i.e. asking what other people think. Who knows? Perhaps wisdom comes from many counselors and is not born with us? Maybe we'd all be edified instead of defensive. Maybe, just maybe, doing and acting like the Bible says really does yield better fruit than doing things the way we want to.
| 2017/8/7 12:31||Profile|
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RE : /// The disunity in the church over eschatological matters arose when Israel was replaced in the thinking of the church.///
That is one of the few consistent views we find in the early part of Church History.
The view that the Church is the Israel of God is consistently taught from the early pre nicene writings through the reformers including the early anabaptist.
And than came the postmillennialist views of the revivalist : whom believed that Romans 11:26 : " And so all Israel shall be saved"
was referring to Israel of the flesh. They also believed that Romans 11:25 : "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." literally meant that "most" of the Gentiles would be converted and saved through the revivales and than once that fulness was accomplished than all of Israel of the flesh would be saved.
edit : add for clarity
changed "all" to "most"
| 2017/8/7 12:38||Profile|
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I would like to post this question though. Does one believe that they can take the mark of the beast during the tribulation and still repent and be saved. I get the impression there are some in the forum who believe this.
I have been lectured by others in this forum about Sola scriptura. That the Bible is a holy book. If you believe that one can take the mark and be saved and please state your case from the book you say is holy.
What are the scriptural proofs that one can take the mark of the beast during the tribulation and still repent and be saved?
| 2017/8/7 13:20|
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Again I ask. What are your scriptural proofs that one can take the mark during the tribulation and still repent and be saved?
| 2017/8/7 13:23|
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In places Paul still used the word Israel to describe unbelieving Israel so the word in the New Testament is not a automatic synonym for the church.
If the church is now the Israel of God how does that nullify the fact that Christ will return to Jerusalem from whence He ascended from and promised to return to? Will the church stop being the Israel of God if this happens?
| 2017/8/7 13:31||Profile|
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RE : /// Again I ask. What are your scriptural proofs that one can take the mark during the tribulation and still repent and be saved?///
Whom in this forum made that claim ?
I am not aware of anyone whom was in agreement with JM on that statement.
| 2017/8/7 13:32||Profile|
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//What are the scriptural proofs that one can take the mark of the beast during the tribulation and still repent and be saved?//
What are your scriptural proofs that the mark is a literal tattoo, chip or whatever?
The other mark mentioned previously in Revelation is not literal.
On what basis, other than Hal Lindsey and the Left Behind books, do you prove this mark is a literal mark?
| 2017/8/7 13:45||Profile|
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I am simply pointing out what I am finding of church history on the subject.
RE : /// ...Will the church stop being the Israel of God if this happens?///
I take these verse's literal : 2 Peter 3:10
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
add : I would recommend this a good refutation of John MacArthur's eschatology :
Tim Conway of Grace Community Church on July 24, 2015
Topic: End Times, The Church
Category: Full Sermons
The Bible teaches us that every single promise in the Old Testament that applied to a Jew also applies to us who are in Jesus Christ. The greatest reality about Israel is that Jesus Christ is the true Israel and we only become such by faith in Him.
| 2017/8/7 13:46||Profile|
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Becoming part of true Israel by faith shouldn't cancel or nullify or change the nature of the promises made to those of Israel who were to become true Israel. I'm a Gentile saved through a covenant made with Israel. I becoming part of and being brought into true Israel doesn't change the promises made to true Israel.
| 2017/8/7 14:34||Profile|