SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism with the Holy Spirit

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 Next Page )
PosterThread
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re: Travis

Perhaps the gifts are to help us to reach the spiritual maturity of faith, hope and love? In Ephesians where the heavenly church is brought into view, gifts are no longer mentioned but love is everywhere there.

Add:
In contrast, the Corinthian church had many problems and lacked love.


_________________
Jade

 2017/8/3 10:37Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Eye hath not seen , nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.


_________________
Bill

 2017/8/3 10:39Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Jade,

I understand your viewpoint, my sister. I am simply commenting on your comments 🙂

Does spiritual maturity equate to no need for the gifts?
Should we try and split the Holy Spirit?
Holy Spirit, bear in me the fruit of faith, hope and love but I have no need of spiritual power or gifts.

We have received the Spirit of power, love and a sound mind. The same Spirit Who works love in us can work through us in power, for the benefit of all our brothers and sisters.

The sum of it is really what was previously quoted:" pursue love...AND desire spiritual gifts..."

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2017/8/3 12:32Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1634
Alabama

 Re:

Mr Billpro -- "but God has revealed it to us by the Spirit". 1 Cor.2:9, 10
I add that not to contradict, but to testify and affirm who He is and what He does. 😀


_________________
Tim

 2017/8/3 17:01Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

I agree Tim, I think what I posted meant, yes, he's reviled some things, just not everything yet. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2017/8/3 17:35Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re: William


Hi William,

The church in Corinthians was a “carnal” church (1 Cor. 1:1-3). They lacked love. They were still “men of flesh” and “babes in Christ”.

To this church that lacked love, Paul had to show them the more excellent way of love. To them, he had to say, “Pursue love.”

Without love and being “babes”, they needed gifts. Therefore he said to them, “Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy” (1 Cor. 14:1).

1 Cor. 13:10 - but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

Gifts are “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

We can only have the fullness of Christ when we have His love in us:

Eph. 3:17-19 -- so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through *****faith*****; and that you, being rooted and grounded in *****love*****, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the *****fullness of God*****.

Christ in us is the hope of glory.

When we have Christ in us, we no longer need His gifts for all that are His are ours too. We are joint-heirs of God with Christ (Rom. 8:17).

Abraham’s servant gave many valuable and precious gifts to Rebekah. But when Rebekah was married to Abraham’s son Isaac and she could freely help herself to everything that Isaac had, does Isaac still need to give her gifts?


Phil. 3:12 - I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

It was only eleven days journey from Horeb by the way of Mount Seir to Kadesh-barnea but the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness for forty years.


1 Cor.1:24 -- Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

John 16:13-15 -- But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. *** He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you***. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.



_________________
Jade

 2017/8/5 10:17Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by BranchinVINE
1 Cor. 13:10 - but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

Gifts are “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).


I just wanted to clarify what it seems you are saying. If we look previous to verse 11, we find out what he is speaking of. I may be wrong but to me the subject matter was not just the 9 gifts of the Spirit but also the gifts of the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds & teachers.

Are you saying, (teachers are) “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

Are you saying, (evangelists are) “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

Are you saying, (the building up of the body of Christ is) “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

Are you saying, (the work of serving is) “until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13).

Etc, you get my drift, I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to see where you are going with this. Or what gifts are you speaking of, just one or more of the 9 gifts of the Spirits?

Thank you for the clarification,
God bless,
Lisa



Eph 4:11-13 He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers
for the perfecting of the saints,
to the work of serving,
to the building up of the body of Christ
...until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;


_________________
Lisa

 2017/8/5 14:27Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re:


Hi Lisa,

I still do not know many of the mysteries of God. The depths of the riches of the knowledge of God are infinitely vast and deep and I am definitely not even “ankle-deep” in my grasp yet.

But I am committed to learning Christ and pressing on to lay hold of the unsearchable riches of God in Christ. The goal and the prize is: Christ in us, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).

This is how I see it:

In Christ all the fullness of God dwells (Col. 1:19) and His fullness is to fill us all (Eph. 1:23). In Christ are all the unsearchable riches of God (Eph. 3:8) and we are joint-heirs of God with Him (Rom. 8:17). We can draw all from Christ by faith as a branch draws all its needs and its life and its nature and its power and its riches from the vine (John 15).

Matt. 9:29 (KJV) -- According to your faith be it unto you.
John 11:40 (NASB) -- Jesus said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?"

Christians who are still “babes in Christ” lack the knowledge and the faith and love to draw all they need and desire from the unsearchable riches in Christ Himself. So gifts are graciously given and it is good for them to desire the gifts.

But Christians who by faith and love lay hold of the immense riches and mighty power in Christ Himself are on higher ground. The Giver is infinitely greater than His gifts.

A minister who is not drawing all his resources and power from the immense and unlimited resources and mighty power in Christ Himself by faith through the Holy Spirit may be given gifts to do the work God wants to be done.

But a minister who by faith and through the Holy Spirit is laying hold of the immense and unlimited resources and mighty power in Christ Himself is definitely on higher ground.

God Himself is the Builder and we are His co-workers. When the house is completed, the workers’ work is done. God moves in and enjoys His house. And the house in which God lives will surely be filled with all the abundance and holiness and power of God. But till the New Jerusalem comes having the glory of God and brilliance as a stone of crystal-clear jasper (Rev. 21), teachers, evangelists, the building up of the body of Christ and the work of serving go on. BUT we press on to maturity (Heb. 5:12-14, 6:1).

Col. 1:28-29 (NASB) -- We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

Gal. 4:19 (ESV) -- my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you!

Phil. 3:7-14 -- But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Blessings.


_________________
Jade

 2017/8/6 5:00Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Dear Jade,

I think I understand wher you are coming from, however you seem to be differentiating between Christian maturity and the gifts of the Spirit as if the two do not go together?

How so? When the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples at Pentecost He came bearing gifts. He was given to be " dunamis / dynamite" power within us and upon us to do the kingdom works in Jesus Name, just like Jesus did.

Jesus didn't walk around like a hippy spouting " peace and love" but He " went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him."
He demonstrated both love and power and so should His people.

You said:" I am committed to learning Christ and pressing on to lay hold of the unsearchable riches of God in Christ. The goal and the prize is: Christ in us, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27)."
Christ in us the hope of glory is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us now as surety of the glorious things to follow, which Jesus promised to prepare for His disciples.

I appreciate your heart and your goal which you stated, my sister, but this does not mean we no longer need the gifts in operation in our midst. As long as people are being added to the church and we desire to serve one another with the Holy Spirit's help, His gifts will be an integral part of our ministering.

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2017/8/6 14:26Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re:


Hi William,

Responding to your post.


“He was given to be "dunamis / dynamite" power within us and upon us to do the kingdom works in Jesus Name, just like Jesus did.”


THE HOLY SPIRIT

John 16:13-15 -- But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. ***** He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you*****. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

1 Cor.1:24 -- Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Therefore the Holy Spirit takes the power of Christ and gives it to us.


CHRIST’S MINISTRY ON EARTH

Christ’s ministry on earth was not based on gifts. He absolutely depended on and trusted in His Father to work mightily in Him and through Him.

John 17:21 - ……You, Father, are in Me and I in You…..

John 5:19 -- Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”

John 8:28 -- “… I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.”

John 10:32 -- Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father”

John 12:49 -- For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.




“Christ in us the hope of glory is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us now as surety of the glorious things to follow, which Jesus promised to prepare for His disciples.”


CHRIST IN US

John 14:19-20 -- After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

John 15:4, 5 -- Abide in Me, and I in you....I am the vine, you are the branches……

John 17:23 -- I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity

John 17:26 -- and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.

Gal. 2:20 -- I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Col. 3:10-11 -- and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.




“I appreciate your heart and your goal which you stated, my sister, but this does not mean we no longer need the gifts in operation in our midst. As long as people are being added to the church and we desire to serve one another with the Holy Spirit's help, His gifts will be an integral part of our ministering.”


I am not saying that gifts are no longer given for ministry. I am saying that we can EITHER base our ministry on gifts OR the Lord Jesus HIMSELF can work mightily in us through the Holy Spirit, by faith. He is the Head. We are His body……His hands and feet etc.

The Holy Spirit is GOD, the Holy Spirit. He is our Master to lead us and take charge, NOT our servant to help us.



Blessings.


_________________
Jade

 2017/8/7 2:16Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy