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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism with the Holy Spirit

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

Quote:

Luke 3:22 says the Holy Spirit descend on Him like a Dove. Not IN Him. I think it was God's way to show those who witnessed His water baptism, that God had a personal relationship with Jesus and was pleased in His submission to God's ways.



If you want to be consistent with this definition of Holy Spirit coming upon people including Jesus, then Consider Acts 11:15 -

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

So even on Apostles the Spirit only came upon?


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/14 10:52Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Sreeram, wooo backup, I'm not doing anything but posting a scripture, please take that up with God... :-)

You might want to read this:

Scripture teaches that we can have a true and personal knowledge of God, but this does not mean we will ever understand him exhaustively. The Bible is clear that God is ultimately incomprehensible to us; that is, we can never fully comprehend his whole being. The following passages show this:

Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable. (Ps. 145:3)

Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? (Job 26:14)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8–9)

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! "For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?" (Rom. 11:33–34; cf. Job 42:1–6; Ps. 139:6, 17–18; 147:5; Isa. 57:15; 1 Cor. 2:10–11; 1 Tim. 6:13–16)

These verses teach that not only is God’s whole being incomprehensible but each of his attributes his greatness, power, thoughts, ways, wisdom, and judgments are well beyond human ability to fathom fully. Not only can we never know everything there is to know about God, we can never know everything there is to know about even one aspect of God’s character or work.


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Bill

 2017/8/14 11:00Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5606
NC, USA

 Re:

After he was baptized, scripture says the HS led him into the wilderness to be tempted. I don't think the HS was sitting on his shoulder like a parrot. Rather, he was imbued with power, like Elijah or Elisha and because of his sinless nature and perfect communion with the Father he was able to do what he did.

If someone thinks Jesus was able to perform miracles by reason of His deity, they are missing the teaching of Phillipians 2


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Todd

 2017/8/14 12:26Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

Mr. Bill, please do not take my post personal. I know that in your previous post, you just mentioned what you think would have happened when Jesus was baptized.

I agree that we can never understand God and his ways completely. I do not even believe that my understanding of Bible is perfect. I am always willing to change my understanding. In fact I do not even believe that God's word can be constrained in a theological box. That is why those who try to constrain God's word inside Calvinism and Arminianism, have to ignore or give a twisted explanation of certain scripture. To avoid this, I read the Bible as it is. I accept it when it gives me warnings about me losing my salvation and I also accept it when it gives me eternal security. I do not find these 2 contradicting.

Coming to the topic in hand, the most convicting proof about the 2nd blessing that Jesus received was its timing, which was inline with the experience of the Apostles. Jesus ventured into public ministry only after receiving the 2nd blessing which is the Baptism of Holy Spirit. Same was the case of Apostles, whom Jesus warned not to leave for ministry till the Holy Spirit was poured upon them during Pentecost. It cannot be coincidence. There should a truth behind this, which simply cannot be ignored.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/14 12:42Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re: TMK

Quote:

If someone thinks Jesus was able to perform miracles by reason of His deity, they are missing the teaching of Phillipians 2



I wanted to agree with you when you posted on this line previously. My understanding on Jesus and his ministry is exactly similar. We have received everything that Jesus was equipped with during his life on earth. Otherwise He simply cannot be our example and we have a very clear excuse for all our unchirstlikeness! That is why Jesus said we will be able to do greater work than Him.

Only things that Jesus did using his deity which is not applicable to us are accepting worship and forgiving sin. Though Jesus was 100% man on this earth, he was also 100% God. Hence he cannot reject worship and authority to forgive sins.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/14 12:49Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5606
NC, USA

 Re:

//Hence he cannot reject worship and authority to forgive sins.//

He may have "sort of" rejected worship when the rich young ruler called him "good" and He asked "why do you call me good?" It's a very subtle point and I may be incorrect about it.


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Todd

 2017/8/14 13:37Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1107
Germany NRW

 Re:

Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Well, even this wicket man knew that the Holy Ghost was given to those baptized only in Jesus name. He must have witnessed something very precious and desirable that he was willing to pay money for. There must have been powerful manifestations accompanying it, more powerful than his witchcraft, otherwise he would not have coveted it.

If this filling with the Spirit was just something plain and
unspectacular, he would have never coveted it.

 2017/8/14 15:30Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

RE: "Is this your reasoning to deny that 2nd blessing that Jesus received? Jesus is our example in everything. Jesus is our forerunner means, he ran the race before us, for us to follow him."

You confuse the issue as a whole and cannot see
what happened at Pentecost. You also confuse
Jesus with the church. If you think in terms of "foreunner"
that will basically mean you will go to be nailed to a cross,
and then your bretheren can receive your spirit within them?

RE: "All believers in Jesus Christ ARE Holy Spirit baptized as per 1 Corinthians 12:12–13"

That exactly what the scripture says, Paul has 2 other
verses so there are 3 scriptures confirming each other.
Unisono one line of reasoning, no one can misunderstand that,
unless you bend your mind and read into it with wrong pretext.

You have NO scripture for your assumption. None.

Your last straw is to refer to Jesus and make this case of
comparing him to the church. Our case here is only about
the church:

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him
should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given;
because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39




 2017/8/14 18:53Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re: Sree


Sree wrote:

"Jesus ventured into public ministry only after receiving the 2nd blessing which is the Baptism of Holy Spirit. Same was the case of Apostles, whom Jesus warned not to leave for ministry till the Holy Spirit was poured upon them during Pentecost. It cannot be coincidence. There should a truth behind this, which simply cannot be ignored."


So.....all those who have not received this "second blessing" are exempted from ministry and the Great Commission? After all they do not have the power......?


_________________
Jade

 2017/8/14 21:02Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5606
NC, USA

 Re:

//So.....all those who have not received this "second blessing" are exempted from ministry and the Great Commission? After all they do not have the power......?//

This is a red herring. Of course people can minister. The disciples went off two by two and did great things because they were sent and they obeyed. This was before Pentecost. But it can hardly be argued that they were not bolder and more effective after Pentecost.

In regard to those who have not received the baptism of the HS, the first thing necessary is to have faith there is such a thing. A person cannot have faith for something they scoff at.

That was my position for around the first 30 years of my Christian walk.


_________________
Todd

 2017/8/14 21:48Profile





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