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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re: The Baptism In The Holy Spirit - Sandeep Poonen

Here is a question that may puzzle some Christians. If Jesus was born by the power of the Holy Spirit, then why did the Holy Spirit have to come upon Him when He was baptized? Are there two kinds of interactions with the Holy Spirit for Christians as well?

It is important that we recognize the need for the baptism (immersion) in the Holy Spirit to live a life of increasing purity. This is the only way that we can increasingly reflect Jesus in His purity. But there is an equally important need for the baptism in the Holy Spirit for our service to God that many do not recognize. The Holy Spirit must give us His supernatural gifts if we are to fulfil our calling as members of the Body of Christ.

Some churches identify spiritual gifts by getting their members to take some sort of Christianized personality test. These tests identify spiritual gifts based on the strengths of various personality types. Now personality tests can help understand human strengths and weaknesses, but this is NOT the power of the Holy Spirit needed for God's work. The supernatural power of the Holy Spirit for God's work is a gift, and is given even in spite of the weaknesses in our personality. So a man who is afraid to boldly speak about Christ can be supernaturally empowered to speak with the authority of the Holy Spirit in a way that produces true repentance in others (Peter in Acts 2).

So as we study God's Word and look at the life of Jesus, we can learn truths about the baptism in the Holy Spirit as it relates to our lives as well as our calling here on earth.

1. Jesus alone baptizes us in the Holy Spirit. And it is confirmed by faith in God's Word.

We are commanded by Jesus to baptize people in water (Matthew 28:19). But Jesus remains the only One who baptizes people in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11). Even when the apostles laid hands on people to receive the Holy Spirit, it was still Jesus Who did the baptizing.

In the book of Acts and the accounts we read there of the early church, we see that the Holy Spirit did at times fall on people even without anyone laying hands on them (Acts 2:1-4; Acts 10:44-46). But the early apostles also had a definite authority to lay hands on others to impart the Holy Spirit to them (Acts 8:17; Acts 19:6). I see that God used this to validate His authority in His true apostles, and also expose imposters who were greedy and enslaved to sin. We see an example of this in Simon the magician (Acts 8:17-24).

We also see from Acts that the gift of tongues almost always accompanied the receiving of the Holy Spirit. We know that the gift of tongues is the least of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:28). So the gift of tongues was the most basic of gifts of the Holy Spirit, and served as an instant and tangible way that newborn believers could know that their prayers for the Holy Spirit had been answered. But the hope was that this would thereby build up their faith to seek for the greater gifts (1 Cor. 12:31).

So is this still applicable? Do we also receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands? And does the gift of tongues usually accompany the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

For us today, the Holy Spirit is not received through the laying of hands. I have never heard of anyone in the last many centuries who could lay hands on people such that they would definitely receive the Holy Spirit. I believe that this was the prerogative of the 'God-sent-ones' (apostles) in the early church alone. (Ananias was not an apostle, but he was a sent-one - Acts 9:10-18).

Further, the gift of the Holy Spirit is not confirmed today through the gift of tongues. That gift is most definitely still active and useful in the church today. But, incredible saints of God like John Wesley, D.L. Moody and Charles Finney were clearly filled with the Holy Spirit more than almost any Christian today. They each had Holy Spirit-empowered ministries in their generation. Yet none of them ever spoke in tongues.

One reason why things are different now in both the receiving and the evidence of the Holy Spirit is that we now have the complete written Word of God. The Bible tells us everything that we need to know about the Holy Spirit and life with God. The first century Christians did not have this. So we who have the Bible today can depend (with full confidence) on His Word to have the assurance of the Holy Spirit within us.

We must see that everything in the Christian life hinges on faith in our hearts. And our faith and assurance must ultimately come from the Word of God (Romans 10:17). It must not rest on the evidence of any external sign. There is, in fact, a perverse and wicked instinct within us to seek for signs (See Matt.12:39). And the Word of God acts as a super-sharp sword that penetrates to the deepest parts of us - beyond our soul with its emotions and intellect and into our spirit (Heb. 4:12). As it drives into our innermost being, it seeks to divide between soul and spirit, and show us whether we are baptized in the Holy Spirit (in our spirits), or have been merely excited by some emotional experience (in our souls).

2. The Holy Spirit rested upon Jesus after His baptism and anointed Him with supernatural gifts for His public ministry.

Jesus began His public ministry at the age of 30, after He was baptized in water and the Holy Spirit rested on Him. Jesus had already lived a perfect and sinless life for 30 years - through the power of the Holy Spirit that He had from birth. But the Holy Spirit now "rested upon" Him to equip Him with the gifts He would need for His public ministry of helping others. So it is critical to recognize that the perfect and sinless Son of God was specifically anointed by the Holy Spirit for His public ministry. This was the Father's way, and Jesus submitted to it. Up until then, Jesus was content to remain in subjection to His parents, with no public ministry (Luke 2:51-52).

So it is with all of us who are members of the Body of Christ here on earth. Even when we live by the power of the Holy Spirit in our personal lives, we still need to be anointed with the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be able to serve God and help others. And we need to continually seek to be baptized/filled/be full of the Holy Spirit, so that we can help others as the Spirit-filled Church of Jesus Christ - and not as a social service organization.

3. The baptism/filling with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 enabled the disciples to stand united and be bold witnesses for Christ. It did not give the disciples immediate victory over sin.

There is no evidence that the disciples got instant victory over their sins on the day of Pentecost. What the baptism in the Holy Spirit did give them was AN AUTHORITY AND A UNITY to proclaim the gospel message. We see Paul filled with the Holy Spirit later, standing united with Barnabas and speaking with authority against evil people (Act 13:9-11).

Let me differentiate this from the fullness of the Holy Spirit that we need for our personal walk. For victory over sin in our own lives, we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, consider ourselves dead to sin, not set our minds on the things of the flesh, and be filled with the Holy Spirit to help us put to death our selfish desires. We can each live in victory over sin if we keep listening to the Holy Spirit in our private daily lives.

But to be useful for ministry with other members of Christ's Body in our local church, we need to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit for blessing others, rather than seeking a blessing for ourselves.

We need supernatural AUTHORITY to proclaim the good news about God in a way that brings repentance and faith in others. For this, we need the Holy Spirit to come upon us, just as the Holy Spirit came upon Jesus when He was baptized in water. The authority of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being bold to preach stirring sermons. And neither is it becoming an extrovert or overcoming stage fright. Rather, the authority we need is to free those bound in sin, and this can only come from the Holy Spirit anointing us and giving us His supernatural gifts with which to minister to and serve others.

We also need supernatural power to be UNITED with other believers and minister as a united expression of the Body of Christ. Only the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon a group of Christians in the local church can enable them to be preserved in unity when the forces of hell seek to attack and divide them. No amount of human resolve or community time together or even listening to the most anointed preaching can do this. Remember what the disciples did when Jesus was arrested? They all deserted Him! And this was after spending 3+ years with the perfect Man Jesus and seeing His miracles and hearing His teaching. But things changed after Pentecost. They became a united group of witnesses for Jesus. "By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" (1 Cor.12:13).

So it is for this supernatural authority and unity in the Body that we need to seek to be baptized in the Holy Spirit as believers in every local church.

Finally, let me say that the Person of the Holy Spirit and His ministry are mysteries. Even as we seek the Lord for wisdom and understanding, we must also embrace the mystery about Him.

But we can be sure of one thing: The Holy Spirit is THE ONLY PERSON who can produce the pure life of Jesus in us. And the Holy Spirit is THE ONLY PERSON who can give us the authority and unity to do His work alongside other Christians as fellow members of His Body. No amount of self-denial can produce that in us. And neither can any amount of righteous living or bright human ideas. So let us remain perpetually thirsty for constant immersions in the Holy Spirit so that Jesus Christ is increasingly reflected in our lives.

Amen!


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Sreeram

 2017/8/13 12:45Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5585
NC, USA

 Re:

//Here is a question that may puzzle some Christians. If Jesus was born by the power of the Holy Spirit, then why did the Holy Spirit have to come upon Him when He was baptized?//

That's a great point and something that I have never considered before.

This alone should quell any argument regarding the need to be baptized by the HS.

I personally believe that EVERYTHING Jesus did (including every miracle) was NOT done because He was God(he emptied himself) but because he was filled with the HS. In this manner He was a model for us.

If Jesus needed to be filled with the HS, how can we possibly be in a position to argue that we don't need to be?


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Todd

 2017/8/13 15:31Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 722
Australia

 Re: TMK


Travis' and Sree's posts are long and I have a busy day .... will read and respond later.

Todd,

What do you say about this:

Jesus was NOT identified with us when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. He was NOT born of Adam. It was only when He entered Jordan that He became "numbered with His transgressors". Jesus' baptism in Jordan was a picture of Him taking our place and of His salvation work for us. It is a picture of the cross and the resurrection. At the cross our old man was crucified. And in Him, in His resurrection, we are born again as a new creation in Him, no longer of flesh and blood as Adam was but of spirit and where we were filled with "flesh" when we were "in Adam" we are now be full of the Holy Spirit IN CHRIST. No one of flesh can be in Christ. And no one in Christ can be without the Holy Spirit.






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Jade

 2017/8/13 19:35Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5585
NC, USA

 Re:

The HS came onto Jesus when He was baptized. It is as plain as day and that is when his public ministry began.


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Todd

 2017/8/13 19:45Profile
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Comparing us to Jesus, I cannot believe I'm reading this

Jesus is the only son of God. The only reason the Holy Spirit
could come to the church as a whole is that he rose from the
crave, descended to heaven and then the Spirit could come
to all believers - and then the church was born.

All believers in Jesus Christ ARE Holy Spirit baptized as per
1 Corinthians 12:12–13

as long as you reject that, you are preaching something
other than Paul, and it would be time to read 2 Cor.11:3 again.

 2017/8/13 19:53Profile









 Re:

Mark 1:7-8

And he was preaching, and saying, “After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to stoop down and untie the thong of His sandals. “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

John 3:34

For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure.

Luke 11:13

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

There is a story about some Chinese pastors from the underground church who came to America. Evidently a tour was organized for these brothers to visit the leading mega churches in the US.  At the end of the tour the host asked the Chinese brothers what they thought of the American church. The leader of the House Church pastors gently and humbly said. "Brother it is amazing what the American church can do....... without the Holy Spirit." 

Only in America and on Sermon Index would there be so much debate over the baptism and filling of the spirit. Only in the persecuted Church would they actually pray for the baptism and the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Then you wonder why God has given so much favor on our persecuted brothers and sisters who walk in so much power. And you wonder why Ichrobob
has been written over the American Church.

Can it be that our persecuted brothers and sisters actually believe what God says in His word. And can it be that we in America disbelieve His word.

Truly one wonders when I see it threads like this.

Bro Blaine 

 2017/8/13 20:13
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1436
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:Sree

What you posted by S. Poonen is very much my understanding and experience.... very well written and for the first time in a long time I can agree with every line I read :)

Thank you for sharing this dear brother!


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Fletcher

 2017/8/13 22:05Profile
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

America can do everything without the Holy Spirit
because some are stuck in a loop by trying to
understand the scriptures by starting with "the gifts",
others want to start with "their experiences" as a
foundation, and yet others want to go back to the time
before the cross.....

So most will not read or understand the following
either, written by a Charismatic, he seems to be
one of the rare ones, that still can see at least
the gross basic errors:

A Different Spirit From The One You Received?
http://www.amen.org.uk/studies/rh/rec-anth.htm

Important chapters:
"Is Today's Practice Non-Biblical or Un-Biblical? "

"Not Every Spirit Sent By God Is Of God"

what reminds me of someone that called all
gross error "Kundalini spirit" what is basically
a technical explanation, but does not tell us
anything about the "others, that act normal"
or what is really going on in the church in
these last days of great confusion.

 2017/8/14 1:38Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1767


 Re:

Quote:

Comparing us to Jesus, I cannot believe I'm reading this

Jesus is the only son of God. The only reason the Holy Spirit
could come to the church as a whole is that he rose from the
crave, descended to heaven and then the Spirit could come
to all believers - and then the church was born.




Is this your reasoning to deny that 2nd blessing that Jesus received? Jesus is our example in everything.

1 Pet 2:21 - For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps.

Heb 6:20 - where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf.

Jesus is our forerunner means, he ran the race before us, for us to follow him.

If Jesus himself had to receive the 2nd blessing, how is it not applicable to us today?

Quote:


All believers in Jesus Christ ARE Holy Spirit baptized as per
1 Corinthians 12:12–13



That is not what the scripture says. The scripture says those who were baptized in the Holy Spirit where all baptized by one Holy Spirit. It is really dangerous when you use one small piece of misinterpreted broken scripture, to deny the experience of Jesus, the Apostles and plenty of many Godly men of past and presence.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/14 5:18Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3304
Texas

 Re:

Luke 3:22 says the Holy Spirit descend on Him like a Dove. Not IN Him. I think it was God's way to show those who witnessed His water baptism, that God had a personal relationship with Jesus and was pleased in His submission to God's ways.


Luke 3:22....and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


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Bill

 2017/8/14 10:33Profile





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