SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism with the Holy Spirit

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 Next Page )
PosterThread
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

1 Corinthians 12:12–13 -- For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and all were made to drink of one Spirit.


_________________
Bill

 2017/8/12 10:42Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

1 Corinthians is the answer

In addition to my last post about Acts
we do have (4) different accounts:

1. Jewish believers, (Acts 2).
2. Samaritan believers (Acts 8:14-17.)
3. Gentile believers (Acts 10:45-46.)
4. Disciples of John the Baptist, Acts (19:1-6.)

all (4) are accounts that differ from each other, If you pick any
one (1) of them by itself only, and apply that as doctrinal teaching
you basically could create 4 different denominations today
and have "full scriptural backup" by a single verse each,
but in reality you've created a doctrine based on 1 historical
case only, never again repeated anywhere else later in the Bible.

Beginning of church history is unique not to be repeated or to
be taught as doctrine. That is entirely wrong, and leads to error
and consequently lots of misunderstandings of what is actually
said by all the apostles after Pentecost.

What do we really have after Acts? remember Paul in Galatians
Didn't You Receive the Holy Spirit By the Hearing of Faith?

he did not say: didn't you receive Your Baptism of the
Holy Spirit -- his emphasis is on 'hearing' and 'faith',

and so absolutely confirming all related mentions regarding
the all inclusive One baptism in Corinthians and Ephesians .

So how can anyone build a theology on 1 historical verse,
wrongly understood like the Samaritans one [when the final
baptism is in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
the Holy Ghost - according to Jesus] , backed up with
pre-pentecostal verses that simply do not apply at all?

And then on top of it all Paul says nothing about second
blessings, or any other of the other apostles.

Would second blessing assumptions have any merit or
significance, they absolutely would had to mention it
- or otherwise they all would have taught a 50% gospel only.
They did not.


By David A. DePra - very long article, here tiny excerpt,
title: Is There a "Second Blessing?"

Once you chop up Jesus Christ, or the Spirit of God, into TWO experiences, which must be separately received – you have completely undermined the entire plan of God. And what you get is division, pride, and deception. 

Read the Bible. You will find NOT A SINGLE verse exhorting people to go on to find a second blessing, nor even one verse telling them to be thankful they did receive it. You will not find so much as a suggestion that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a separate blessing from salvation, or a suggestion that there is such a thing as a Christian who lacks the second blessing. Not a teaching, not a type, and not a parable. Quite remarkable, given the fact that this is a major issue today – one that could have been easily cleared up with one verse. That is because there is no second blessing. The existence of it is purely the invention of religious man. 

Always be aware of what people make into a major issue, but which the Bible is silent about. The Bible didn’t leave out important Truth. Where the Bible is silent, we ought to be silent.

 2017/8/12 19:32Profile









 Re:

•••What do we really have after Acts? remember Paul in Galatians
Didn't You Receive the Holy Spirit By the Hearing of Faith?•••

George don't forget in that same chapter Paul says,

••• So then, does He who provide you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the Works of the law or by hearing with faith ••• Gal.3:5

The providing of the spirit and the working of Miracles would imply that the Galatians had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Only by being baptized in the Holy Spirit can one do and receive the miracles of God.

Brother I'm assuming you embrace a cessationist position of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Your post argue against such.

Let me ask you do you believe in prayer. Do you believe that when God answers a prayer that is a miracle. If you are short money in the checking account and a bill comes due and you have no money to pay that bill. You cry out to God to do something. You cry out to God for him to provide money to pay that bill. Then all of a sudden somebody's slips you an envelope with the amount of cash that's exactly for that bill. Is that not an answer to your prayers? Is that not a miracle.

Brother if you're going to embrace a cessationist position than you better stop praying. For if you are praying to God to answer prayers then you are trusting him to do a miracle. For any answer to prayer is a miracle from God.

Again simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/8/12 19:44
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
So....WHY has God given you this experience you call the "baptism with the Holy Spirit" and not to others?

Are some Christians "greater" than others.....?




13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


I don't intend for this to sound the least bit sarcastic. I am being very sincere when I say this. But I guess the simple answer is because I asked.

I am always puzzled that any believer could ever think of himself as "greater" than any other. The reward was reckoned of grace, not of works. In and of myself I have only been deserving of a one way ticket to hell. But praise be to God that His marvelous grace was extended to me and I was saved from what I deserved and given His righteousness in its place.


_________________
Travis

 2017/8/12 20:29Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

George: I might say that all of Paul's letters and I am sure most of the general epistles were written during the time period that is described by Luke in the Acts. I say all of Paul's because Luke records Paul's life right up to his final imprisonment and even records the martyrdom of James. So that being the case we cannot, in my opinion, use an argument such as, "We don't find any record of people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit after the ones recorded in Acts, so that must have just been a one time and special occurrence.

Also, I would ask you, where in scripture do we find that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was only to bring four distinct groups into the church and then the purpose of the gift was finished and God changed the program so to speak? I will be transparent. I am asking this question rhetorically because I think we must be careful that we do not simply accept an opinion that is not supported by scripture.

I think that written history of the church is replete with accounts of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the history of the church is still being written as we speak. I would put this account forth as an example.

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

I can tell you from my own experience that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the one thing that has happened in my walk with God that has resulted in the most power in my life, the most joy, and the greatest spiritual growth. I have seen God radically change so many men and women when they received this gift. I believe that Jesus never intended for one believer to live without being indued with power by the Holy Spirit.


_________________
Travis

 2017/8/12 20:52Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re: Travis

I asked:

“So....WHY has God given you this experience you call the "baptism with the Holy Spirit" and not to others?
Are some Christians "greater" than others.....?”


This is also a serious and genuine question.

There are Christians who have been made to feel that they need to have this experience, have desired it and prayed for it but have not received it and this doctrine of the “second blessing” has become a stumbling block to them.

If you have been given this special spiritual blessing, is it not given to make others rich?

2 Cor. 6:10 – as poor yet making many rich, as having nothing yet possessing all things.

Gen. 12:2 -- I will bless you ……… so that you will be a blessing.



“13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”

Does this not apply to the gift of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Acts 2:38? All the riches of our salvation are received by faith, prayer and thanksgiving.



Add:

I have also heard of people who have had this "second blessing" experience and failed in their Christian life.




_________________
Jade

 2017/8/13 5:06Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 739
Australia

 Re:


1 Corinthians 12:12–13 -- For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and all were made to drink of one Spirit.


Amen, Bill.


_________________
Jade

 2017/8/13 5:08Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by BranchinVINE
There are Christians who have been made to feel that they need to have this experience, have desired it and prayed for it but have not received it and this doctrine of the “second blessing” has become a stumbling block to them.


I don’t know if you remember when you first got saved but wasn’t it so exciting?!! I told everyone AND I invited everyone to church that I told because I just knew if they met Jesus they too would love Him. After asking my mom to church for 3 or 4th time, do you know what she told me? “You got saved, Lisa, not me, when I want to go to church I’ll go, so stop asking me.” Here’s another story, I saw this one guy from my neighborhood while we were both picking up to go orders from Frisch’s that I used to party with and he said, “Hey Lisa, it’s been awhile, man where you been?” I smiled said proudly, “Man, I got saved!” He got all nervous and said, “I’m happy for you, but I’ve got to go.” LOL And out he went!

The point I’m trying to make is that whether we like it or not, we come off as offensive to some or most in our zeal for sharing the Lord with everyone! I learned that not all of my unsaved friends and family wanted to be saved.

Quote:
by BranchinVINE
If you have been given this special spiritual blessing, is it not given to make others rich?


To continue in that vein, I also believe that we (Christian’s) who have received the gift of tongues (or any other gift), we have come off as so excited and therefore offensive to the other Christians that we so exuberantly tried to share this gift with! I mean, who are we going to share this new gift with? We know enough not to go to the unsaved (perhaps we should have!), no we go to the Christians who are already saved and share this with and (edit) I would say that we did try to share it with others but like I learned that not all my unsaved friends and family wanted to be saved; I’ve also learned that not all my Christian friends wanted this gift (or any) as well.

I am surrounded by many friends who do not speak in tongues and they love me anyway and I love them! The only place I contend with anyone about speaking in tongues is on SI. I’m sure it’s the same for the rest of us tongue talkers! We read something that provokes us to love and to share our experience and so we do.

God bless you Jade,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2017/8/13 7:32Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Jade: Everything we receive from God, we receive by faith. I quoted verse 13 because it specifically deals with the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The context is that we are already children and are asking for a gift that God promises will be given.

I don't know how exactly to begin this story, so I guess I will start at the beginning. I hesitate to tell this in detail, as I don't want to be misunderstood. But I guess this might be a blessing.

I was born again at eight years of age and experienced such a genuine and wonderful sense of sin forgiven and presence of God in my life. But I knew there was something missing that I desired. By age 14 I was praying to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But all of us have come from somewhere, and I had grown up in a church that had a fairly rigid view of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and what I have come to realize was a fairly legalistic and skewed view of sanctification. As a result, I had somehow become convinced in my mind that I had to reach some level of personal perfection or holiness if you will in order to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I remember being at a summer church camp and praying from about 9 p.m. until 2 a.m. at an altar, seeking God for the gift of the Holy Spirit. I was hungry for sure, and I was determined. These were wonderful times. I spent nearly six hours straight, absolutely lost in the presence of the Lord. The time went by as if it were nothing. But there was a battle going on as well between my mind and my spirit. Due to some error in either what I had been taught or in my understanding, I would be disappointed that I had not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

A couple errors here that I think were present. First, I believed I had to be perfect to some arbitrary level before I "qualified" in God's eyes to have such a wonderful gift. Second, I thought that a person absolutely had to speak in tongues or he had not really received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I was trying to figure that out with my analytical mind. I did not understand that tongues are from the spirit, not the mind.

At age 18, I was finally made to understand that I did not have to be perfect in order to receive the empowerment that comes from the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but that I needed that empowerment to help me to live a life holy and pleasing to God. That was a total game changer. That very night I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and, by the way, prayed and sang in tongues for the first time. Since then the Holy Spirit has been a source of strength and power in my life that has been amazing.

Since then I have learned much, and had many misconceptions cleared up in my mind. I understand faith in a greater way now. I understand relationship in a greater way now. I have prayed with many who were wanting to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I have rarely seen anyone who did not receive right away, with the exception of a few who, it seems, had similar legalistic upbringing as I had.

I find it interesting that it seems the religious mind (I use that term in the sense of those who try to please God through their own efforts of religion) that has a legalistic bent seem to be the ones who have the most difficulty walking in faith and simply receiving what God has freely offered to them. But then again, scripture tells us this happens.

I have learned that what God has offered is to simply be received. This is true of the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the scripture I quoted clearly says. It is like this. Suppose I told you that I would give you a dollar any time you wanted it. If you were to ask me for a dollar and you had established relationship with me and knew that I genuinely loved you, you would have every confidence that I would simply reach into my wallet and hand you a dollar. There would be no question. The simple act of asking would, in your mind, be inseparable from the act of holding the dollar in your hand. So I like to picture it this way. Receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a simple as asking for a dollar and receiving it.

Some would ask, do I have to speak in tongues to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I answer no. However, if you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, you can commune with God by praying in tongues, so why would you not want to? But that again is done by faith, as is everything with God.

I would say this as well. Paul tells us that when a man prays in tongues it is his own spirit that prays. Now we know that this is only possible if we are baptized in the Holy Spirit and our own spirit is in communion with the Spirit of God. In other words, we can pray in tongues because He gives us that ability. But if it is our own spirit that prays, this means that we determine when and where that happens. Our own spirit is who we really are right? (Understand that I am NOT talking here about the gift of tongues in the assembly. God determines when and where that happens, not me.) But this is done in faith.

I hesitated to share that experience because some who have not been raised around pentecostal people, or who have had only experiences with pentecostal people who are off in left field, or those who have been taught against these things might misunderstand me. But I thought my own experience might help someone else.



_________________
Travis

 2017/8/13 7:50Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

Baptism of Holy Spirit is real, Jesus received it (30 years after he was born of the Spirit), apostles received it ( few weeks after they received the Holy Spirit). Hence it is only arrogance to say it is not applicable to us.

Now I find these arguments against those who deny it, is totally meaningless. How can you prove a blind person the existence of color? A person who is devoid of the power of the Holy Spirit cannot be proved that such a thing exists. Let them continue living blind (powerless christian)!

For a person who has experienced the Baptism of Holy SPirit, even at gunpoint, I cannot deny it. My life changed before and after the baptism of Holy Spirit. How can I deny what the Lord did in my life?


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/8/13 12:24Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy