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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism with the Holy Spirit

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twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

yuehan: We have a tendency as Americans, and I think as people in general as well, to try to boil things down to a formula. If I complete steps 1-3 then I am now at this level of spiritual maturity, or I am at this level of discernment, or I am at this level of spirituality. Unfortunately it is not so with the things of God.

Being filled with the Spirit (or as some would say baptized in the Holy Spirit) is both receiving and abiding. It is like this. One day I married my wife. There was a ceremony, a new level of intimacy, a celebration, etc.. But that was only the initiation of my marriage. What had welded my wife and I together has been the continual abiding together, the continual emotional and physical intimacy, and the continual learning about one another's thoughts and heart. This abiding in one another has grown that relationship. The same is true with the Holy Spirit. There is an initial filling such as we read of in Acts 2, but then there is a continual abiding that causes us to grow in Him. Be continually in a state of being filled with the Spirit.

The same is true of discernment. In all reality, discernment is primarily hearing the voice of God. Our ability to do this increases as we abide in Him. The more I abide in Him and the less I give myself to other things, the greater will be my ability to hear with my spiritual ears.

So there is no real sequence of steps or practical advice. Die to yourself, abandon the things of this world more and more, learn to abide in Him and in His presence more and more. Let the love relationship that you have with God through Jesus grow. Get to know Him more through continually feasting on His word. Make Him your everything. In doing this, you will find that your spiritual discernment will grow over time. It is a lot like a child growing into a man and a man growing into a mature elder. The change just happens and we can't quite put our finger on it. So it is with spiritual maturity in my opinion.


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Travis

 2017/8/10 8:52Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Bro Travis,

Beautifully stated, as always.

Maybe we should start a separate thread concerning spiritual growth / maturity and delve a little deeper.

Blessings,


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William

 2017/8/10 9:02Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

We did. I have been blessed as I read it so far.


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Travis

 2017/8/10 14:44Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Travis, my guess is to totally understand any book perfectly, you probably would have to consult the author. So it goes even deeper, since the author of the Bible is not here to consult, we have to consult him through the spirit. Now if you can perfectly understand the spirit every time he speaks to you, well my guess is you can perfectly understand the Bible. I for one, cannot perfectly hear/or understand the spirit ever time he speaks to me, maybe some can here, but my guess is if some can here, they probably would not be wasting to much time here, they would would be out bringing in the lost sheep.

God goes to great effort to seek lost sinners and He greatly rejoices when they come to repentance. If that is what our God is like, then that is what we, as His people, should be like. So, whens the last time any of us regular posters, have brought in any lost sheep? :-)


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Bill

 2017/8/10 15:32Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Bill: If I don't miss my guess, you have the heart of an evangelist. You live, eat, sleep, and breath bringing lost souls to Christ. I have a good friend that is exactly like that. I traveled with him once, and a stop at a convenience store was a very long and drawn out affair because he would invariably find someone who was lost, strike up a conversation, and before you know it he was ministering to them and they were coming to Christ. It was an awesome thing to watch, and it was an anointing on His life.

I am a teacher and I wonder sometimes if there is not a bit of a pastoral calling as well. My heart is to take new believers and teach them the word of God so they can grow up to be mature men and women of God who are able to go out and minister to the lost and other new believers.

We are all called to win the lost. I ministered to a lost man earlier today. He did not come to the Lord yet, but the door has been opened to speak into His life. But the calling on our life sometimes puts an emphasis in us that is stronger than that same emphasis in another believer.

I am in total agreement with you that if all we do is sit around discussing the word of God in our own homes and never seek to win the lost, then we are missing our universal calling and need to get off the couch. But I also believe that there is great benefit in discussing the word and coming to a fuller understanding.

I also agree that none of us have a perfect understanding of the word of God. That is why we must have a heart that is humble enough to consider what others say and seek the Lord and His word to see if that is true. And, if I come to a better understanding of the word through the discussion, then I am better able to minister that understanding correctly to those with whom I come in contact.


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Travis

 2017/8/10 18:15Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Travis, you're just to nice. Yes! I have the gift of gab, just ask Sister Lysa, she will testify to that. :-)


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Bill

 2017/8/10 19:29Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re: Jesus is our example

I am not sure whether this thought was already presented here, but it came to me while I was reading Luke 3.

Even in 2nd blessing, Jesus is our example. Did he receive the 2nd blessing? If yes then we should be arrogant to deny the existence of 2nd blessing.

How was Jesus born?

Luke 1:35 - The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God.
The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and Jesus was conceived in her womb. Hence Jesus was born of the Spirit from his birth.

How does this apply to us?
When we are born again, we are born of the Holy Spirit. (John 3:6). Hence we are in the same state as Jesus was when he was born in the likeness of our flesh.

Did Jesus being born of the Spirit, receive the Holy Spirit again? Yes he did!

Luke 3:21 - Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while HE WAS PRAYING, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

So Jesus after being Born of the SPirit, did not do any ministry for the first 30 years of life. All he did is to please God. But when he was baptized, he was found praying. We do not know what he prayed, but we can guess it based on how God answered the prayer. God answered it by sending the Holy Spirit upon him. Hence Jesus was praying for the Baptism of Holy Spirit, which he received upon him as an answered prayer. He then ventured into his allotted ministry.

Are we not arrogant to not pray for Baptism of Holy Spirit, if Jesus himself prayed for it? Are we not arrogant to venture into a ministry without seeking Baptism of Holy Spirit, when Jesus himself did not do that?

I think it is plain arrogance of Bible knowledge that makes so called believers deny the 2nd blessing.




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Sreeram

 2017/8/10 22:24Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Oh my, We (some) are now AFTER the time of Pentecost, not before

NOW: It Is Not Scriptural To Pray for the Holy Spirit.

There is not a single line in Scripture, after the coming of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, where anyone is commanded or exhorted to "tarry" or pray for the Holy Spirit.

NOW: It Is Not Scriptural To Seek the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Nowhere in the Word of God is anyone admonished to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not once in their epistles do Paul or Peter or James or John write anything about believers "receiving their baptism," or "having their Pentecost."



 2017/8/11 3:40Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by a-servant
There is not a single line in Scripture, after the coming of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, where anyone is commanded or exhorted to "tarry" or pray for the Holy Spirit.


Luke 24.49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Tarry = remain = wait = abide 'until ye be endued with power from high,' and we know what happened when they did, brother!

Quote:
by a-servant
Nowhere in the Word of God is anyone admonished to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not once in their epistles do Paul or Peter or James or John write anything about believers "receiving their baptism," or "having their Pentecost."


Ac 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

God bless you, brother,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2017/8/11 7:48Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re Baptism with the Spirit

Hi brother,

Would it not be more accurate to say we are still in Pentecost? Yes, the initial Pentecost was when the Holy Spirit was poured out that day, however He is said to be poured out "on all flesh". The promise is:" to you and your children and to all still afar off"

Clearly, all flesh do not have Him, so there are conditions to be fulfilled (repent and believe the gospel etc) and sometimes there is an act of asking and receiving…

And the scripture Lisa quoted:” 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.”
If receiving the Holy Spirit was basically automatic at conversion why did Paul lay hands on them?

And no-one can truly explain the initial evidence, at this later stage, that they “spake with tongues and prophesied”….

If all have received why do all not speak with tongues and prophesy?

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2017/8/11 8:30Profile





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