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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A Thought Provoking Statement

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Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Bearmaster wrote: "Simply my thoughts. Thoughts that would have gotten me burned at the stake and probably still will. But my confession is Jesus is Lord. My confession is He the Living Word. And my confession is the scriptures are that which give wisdom in how one is to have faith and life in His name. But my confession is it is the Living Word Jesus Himself who is to be worshipped and not the written word."
___________________________________________________________

You err in you knowledge of church history. Those who were burnt at the stake, were because they upheld the 'Word of God' as the ultimate authority for truth. Your low view of scripture would be in line with the Roman Catholic persecutors, so I think you will be OK when it comes to having to deny the authority of scripture.


_________________
Dave

 2017/7/19 8:51Profile









 Re:

••• You err in you knowledge of church history. Those who were burnt at the stake, were because they upheld the 'Word of God' as the ultimate authority for truth. Your low view of scripture would be in line with the Roman Catholic persecutors, so I think you will be OK when it comes to having to deny the authority of scripture.•••

Dave they were burned at the stake not that they worshipped the Bible. They were burned at the stake because they worshipped Him who was the author of The Bible.

It is the same with our persecuted brethren in today. Though they will risk death it won't a copy of the scriptures. They realize it is the Living Word they risk death for and not the book itself.

The Roman Catholics never acknowledged Jesus Christ as the Living Word who dwelt in one's heart. That is the Living Word who dwells in their heart by faith. So to equate my view with that of Roman Catholicism is simply not correct.

What I see as those who hold to a high view of scripture is almost equated to a worship of scripture itself. Again perhaps their idea of the Trinity is Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Bible.

It would seem that there are those who interpret John 1:1 as in the beginning was the Bible and the Bible was God and the Bible was with God.

As ridiculous as that might sound. I eonder if there are those who worship the Bible on a par
with worshipping Christ Himself.

Scriptures are a testimony of Christ himself. The scriptures point is to Christ who is the Living Word. But the scriptures do not give us eternal life nor are they to be worshipped. There is only one who commands our worship and that is the Living Word Himself. There is one who gives us eternal life. That is Jesus Christ Himself.

My thoughts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/7/19 10:35
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE : /// Dave they were burned at the stake not that they worship the Bible. They were burned at the stake because they worshipped Him who was the author of The Bible.///

They where Burned at the stake because of there stance on the Authority of Scripture and There realization that True Spirituality and Faith comes from reading/hearing and than believing Gods Word.

Lets not speculate.
Read the writings of men whom where burned at the stake such as Tyndale and what they Believed about the authority of Scriptures :

'THE OBEDIENCE OF A CHRISTIAN MAN' by William Tyndale :

https://www.richard-2782.net/obediencechristianman.pdf



 2017/7/19 11:11Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 William Tyndale : "God’s words are spiritual" (In other words it is Holy)

"God is a Spirit, and all his words are spiritual,
His literal sense is spiritual, and all his words are
spiritual. When you read (Mat 1.21) “She shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins:” this literal sense
is spiritual, and everlasting life to as many as believe it. And the literal sense of these words, (Mat 5.7) “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall have mercy;” these words are spiritual and life, by which those who are merciful may rightfully, by the truth and promise of God, challenge for mercy. It is like these words, Mat 6.15, “If you forgive other men their sins, your heavenly Father shall forgive you yours.” And so it is
with all the promises of God. Finally, all God’s words are spiritual, if you have the eyes of God to see the right meaning of the text, and what the Scripture pertains to, and the final end and cause of it. All Scripture contains the promises and testament of God in Christ, and the stories pertaining to that testament are to strengthen your faith; or else the law and the stories pertaining to it are to frighten you from doing evil. There is no story or tale in Scripture, however simple or vile to the world, that you will not find spirit and life in it, and edification in the literal sense. For it is God’s Scripture, written for your learning and comfort. There is no cloth or rag there that does not have precious relics wrapped in it of faith, hope, patience and long suffering, and of the truth of God, and also
of his righteousness." - William Tyndale

 2017/7/19 11:28Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: A Thought Provoking Statement


I wanted to add something, I love the precious word of God and the Word of God. Many of you who say we should worship the written word of God, and I'm wondering if you pray that word of God?

I only ask because people have posted threads on SI about "claiming" the word of God in their life and believe what the Bible says about healing and other topics but man o man, do they shot down in this forum and branded as "word of faith."

I see a tremendous gulf in how you allow yourselves freedom to worship or love your Bible but not another. Can you explain to me and others the difference between you worshiping your Bible and them worshiping theirs?

I ready, willing and able to read your responses.


_________________
Lisa

 2017/7/19 11:50Profile









 Re: William Tyndale : "God’s words are spiritual" (In other words it is H

•••They where Burned at the stake because of there stance on the Authority of Scripture and There realization that True Spirituality and Faith comes from reading/hearing and than believing Gods Word.•••

The worship of the Bible and not of Christ.

Bro Blaine

 2017/7/19 11:50
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: William Tyndale : "God’s words are spiritual" (In other words it is H

Quote bearmaster: "If we say the Bible is holy then is this not opening up bibliolatry? Is this not opening up worship of the Bible?"

NO. This statement you made early on in this thread is a completely wrong conclusion and shows what you really wanted to address. However it is a false connection. In trying to expose an error (that we don't see much of) of folk actually worshiping the bible, you make an equally dangerous error of denigrating the scriptures. Of course the bible is Holy, if you undertstand what 'Holy' means, i.e seperate, unique and not like any other. In the same way (as Greg previously pointed out) God is Holy and His people are Holy.

In your zeal to be controversial you are in danger of reducing the bible to just another book that points us to Christ. So is Pilgrims Progress or Tozer's The pursuit of God on an equal level as the Bible? If not why not?

This is just another pointless thread that ends up undermining the truth.


_________________
Dave

 2017/7/19 11:51Profile









 Re: Some Random Thoughts.

•••The Bible is a Holy library of 66 Holy Books inspired by a Holy God. I cringe at the thought of even suggesting that God's Word is not Holy. We do not say that the books of the Bible contain the Word of God but that it is the Word of God and never should we even suggest it is unholy. We should perish the thought and even consider it close to blasphemy when the Holy Spirit and the Word are One.•••

Acts 6:13

•••This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the law,•••

The Jews worshipped the temple and the law.  Is the Bible being put upon a pedestal to be worshipped?

Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 5:39-40,

••• You search the scriptures  because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me and you are unwilling to come to Me  so that you may have life.••• 

The Jews possess the law and they believe that by studying the law they had eternal life. Is this the same attitude that is being placed on the Bible? That by possessing and studying the Bible one has eternal life?

••• This is just another pointless thread that ends up undermining the truth.•••

I assume the statement above refers to undermining the truth of the Bible. That was never the intention of this thread. Also did not Jesus say in John 14:6

••• I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the father but through Me.•••

Truth is found in a Person and His name is Jesus. He is the truth.  The Bible may contain truth about Jesus. Butto quote Richard Wurmbrandt, the Bible is the truth about the Truth. The ultimate truth is found in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So here is a question.  How did the first century Church in Acts function without a Bible of 66 books? For that matter how did the first century church in Acts function without a complete New Testament?

To the best of my knowledge the completed Bible did not come about until about the middle of the second or third centuries. Thus the church functioned without a completed Bible for at least a century or two.  

So again the question how did the first century church function without a Bible? And particularly how could the first century church function without a Bible and accomplish what they did? 

We consider ourselves blessed because we have all 66 books of the Bible. Yet are we walking in the same Apostolic power that the first century Church did?

Is it possible that the first century church functioned without a written Bible because they had living Word Himarlf, Jesus, working through those first century hearts that were yielded to Him?

Bro Blaine 


 2017/7/19 12:40
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

The higher critics view that the Scriptures only purpose is to point us to Jesus is the root of liberal christian thinking.

read this artical by the huffington post and you will find the exact same arguments, misrepresentations that has been used in this thread :

Worshiping God, Not the Bible :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-idom/the-bible-vital-tool-or-m_b_814058.html


1.) The Bibles Purpose is simply to point us to God

RE : /// He remarked that the Bible is not a holy book. But the Bible is a book about One who is holy.///

huffington post :

"But, I must always remember, it is not through the bible that I am found. No, that is more about the one God I understand the bible to be revealing."

2.) Accusing those whom disagree of (bibliolatry):

RE : /// If we say the Bible is holy then is this not opening up bibliolatry? Is this not opening up worship of the Bible? ///

huffington post :

"It was, I believe, Robert Schuler who warned Christians to beware of “bibliolatry”."

3.) KJV strawman

RE : /// Yet even in this forum there have been fierce debates over which is the one pure translation. There have been those who have tried to convince us that the KJV is the only translation to use. Thus relegating the Bible to nothing more than just a book of rules as to which rule book is the better one to use. I've often seen that those who contend for the KJV are often the most legalistic in their approach to a walk with faith with Christ.///

huffington post :

"I will never forget standing up to read the scripture from the bible my bishop had given me when a member of the church stood up and shouted at me: “That’s what’s wrong with you seminary boys. You don’t read from the real bible!” He got up and left in an angry huff. Of course, the “real” bible was the King James bible."

4.) The misleading accusation that those whom disagree : would imply a new meaning of the Trinity

RE : /// If I did not know any better it would seem the above statement would imply worship of the written Bible. This almost would imply a new meaning of the Trinity which is Holy Father, Holy Son, Holy Bible.///

huffington post :

"It was, I believe, Robert Schuler who warned Christians to beware of “bibliolatry”. That is, worshipping the bible to the same degree that we worship the God the bible reveals. To be consistent, that means remembering the Trinity only has three sides, not four."







 2017/7/19 13:49Profile









 Re:

Luke 4:16-21

And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,

THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, 
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. 
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, 
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, 
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 
TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD."

And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him.  And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."


The hearers of Jesus were so fixated on the written word. They could not see Him who was the Living Word standing in front of them.  They did not realize that it was Jesus who is the word of God who fulfilled the written word of the Old Testament.

We have the same thing in modern-day Christendom. There is so much focus on the written word, the Bible. That one fails to see Jesus as the fulfillment of the scriptures. One fails to see Jesus as the Living Word of whom the scriptures testify.

Bro Blaine 

 2017/7/19 16:55





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