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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by staff
Definitely John fullfilled the role of Elijah and was the Elijah that was to come. It doesnt mean that he isnt coming again though! Also I noticed that Elijah as in John wasnt recognised and thats still happening today in my opinion in large we arent reconising that he is coming again.
One other point if the people of the day had trouble recognising him and trouble understanding the simple how could Jesus explain that he would come again and why would he?


I have a bit of a problem with this because in all your explanations, I don't see any focus on the risen Christ returning in great glory with every eye beholding "HIM" in this spirit of Elijah teaching, maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

Also, I was reading about the two witnesses this morning and something caught my eye in Rev 11:7
Quote:
When they finish their testimony, THE BEAST THAT ASCENDS OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.



Isn't there is only the ONE time that the dragon, the beast, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit? And is in Rev 20:2-3?

Here’s Rev 20:2
Quote:
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.



And then he is released in Rev 20:7:
Quote:
7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle;...



From the Scripture, could your timing be off when the two witnesses are here? Or how many beasts ascend of the bottomless pit?


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Lisa

 2017/6/20 7:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by staff
Thanks Lysa,
I didnt expect this today ....just what I needed lol.


I'm sorry, I didn't expect everything either LOL but you are doing well brother getting to everybody!!


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Lisa

 2017/6/20 7:27Profile
Martyr
Member



Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States

 Re:

Quote by Greg: But it is factual that the influx of thousands of cult groups and false teachings in the last 200 years particularly have all stemmed from the belief of "restorationism" which believes the church apostated after the apostles and now all of a sudden the truth is re-revealed in the modern day through the man of the hour. What is unhealthy about this in short is that they can deny all church history, all creeds, belief in the trinity and other core beliefs because God has shown them the real truth of the apostolic doctrine.

Sounds an awful lot like the protestant reformation eh?


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Tyler

 2017/6/20 10:51Profile
Martyr
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Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States

 Re:

What I mean by that is if we recognize the protestant reformation as being from God then we must readily admit that God gives revelation that can contradict established Christianity and church history. I apologize for the terse comment.


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Tyler

 2017/6/20 10:59Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2400


 Re:

How about some specific examples of what you are referring to Martyr? I would be interested.


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David Winter

 2017/6/20 11:36Profile
RogerB
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Joined: 2007/4/5
Posts: 266
Bruceton TN

 Re:

As to the church not being Israel.

I see the High priest of Israel with his 12 stones as a figure of the true. There is no 13th stone for the church. Jesus is our High priest today. The gentiles are blessed through Ephraim. It's in genesis 48:14-19 when we see in verse 19 that through Ephraim many nations would be blessed and I believe the word "nation" is "Goyim". The story of the wild olive and the natural olive tree also bear this out. The tree is a natural olive tree with wild ones grafted in.


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James R Barnes

 2017/6/20 14:29Profile
RogerB
Member



Joined: 2007/4/5
Posts: 266
Bruceton TN

 Re:

The two witnesses

By 2 or more witnesses is a thing established has been the way of God a long time. Christ and John baptist were the forerunner two witnesses to Israel.

At the end it seems God would just call up the local church. But no, music, denomiantion, doctrine, and even the Bible version, etc has divided us. Satan has really done a great job. The two that come will come with authority, even doing creation wonders so there won't be any misunderstanding who they represent, and they will teach God's way correctly right before the world heads into a terrible time. God has always sent a prophet before a calamity.


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James R Barnes

 2017/6/20 14:38Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Lysa,
On the point of emphasis on the return Christ:

I am just narrowing down my focus on what the coming "Elijah" would do and when not on Christ . The coming Elijah's main role is to announce that "Christ is coming soon"
Lets talk about that just for a minute

John gave a prophesy that Christ was coming and his winnowing fork was in his hand etc
John while in prison couldnt understand and was doubting whether Jesus was the Messiah and he sent word "Are you the Christ or should we look for another"
Why was he unsure?Because Jesus was not coming as the conquering king which John expected but the sacrificial lamb an earlier prohesy of John.

The future coming of Christ whether it be post or pre will be heralded again but this time his winnowing fork will be in his hand ,Judgement is coming.
A future Elijah will as with John totally point to Christ and that he is coming soon.

ON THE TIMING AND WHAT TRIGGERS ELIJAH'S COMING?
(this is interesting no matter whether Elijah ever comes again)


I think its clear that the witnesses come for 3 1/2 years or 1260 days so they will have to come at the beginning of the 7 years to begin ministry or they will have to begin ministry in the Middle.
One old testament insight I believe I got was this and I think its interesting regarding timing but not in days and year terms is this .The trigger if you read 1 Kings carefully for God to send Elijah is what??
Their doesnt seem an obvious trigger until you get rid of the chapter and verse demarcations you will see that the trigger is that Ahab Married Jezebel .The wicked woman who is the Architypical person in the bible who stands for "false religion" marries Ahab a type of the Anti Christ.
It has popped in my head what J Prasch said on a tape I bought that the false religous system marries the false political system.
Whats interesting is that this plays itself out again in Revelation where you have "the woman riding the beast"
So I would say that if you want to know when the Two Witnesses are coming it will be immediately after the false religous system of the world marries the false politcal system of the world.
I think most people miss the trigger for why Elijah came to challenge Ahab ,its hidden but its there, he married Jezebel that the reason
I will mull over what you are saying about the thousand years etc but the Witnesses will have to do as their name suggests and Witness and what will be there Witness?
That as you say Christ is coming ,
urs staff

P.S
I have taken away Chapter and Verse of the last few verses of 1 kings chapter 16 and the first verse of Chapter 17 and you can see and read in sequence Why God Sent Elijah

1:Ahab did the most evil in Gods Sight
2:He Married Jezebel and served Baal because of her
3:He made an Altar because of her
4:He made a groove because of her
5:He allowed Jericho to be rebuilt

And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.

And he reared up an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he had built in Samaria.
And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.

In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun.

And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.

 2017/6/20 16:57Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1901


 Re:

Hi Again,
I just noticed that the start of Chapter 17 begins unusually with "And" as if their should have never been a Chapter break or a full stop after Johua Son of Nun,
urs staff

 2017/6/20 17:01Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2400


 Re:

Chronological problems persist. The two witnesses are killed and resurrected after three and a half days and ascend into heaven. Immediately there is a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city falls and seven thousand perish (Rev 11:11-14). This ends the second woe and the third woe is soon to come. If this is the period in which the two witnesses are active it can't be the first three and a half years (1,260 days) of peace before the tribulation begins. So how can these two witnesses engage in a Elijah type ministry to the church and call the church to the wilderness if that church has already disappeared in a pre-trib rapture before the ministry of the two witnesses begins? Since they are obviously portrayed as appearing and becoming active during the last three and a half years (1,260 days) how can they call and prophesy to a church already snatched away before they begin their ministry?

How can the church consisting of saints dead and alive be caught up and translated at a pre-trib rapture if the last trumpet signalling their translation (I Cor 15:52) occurs at the second coming of Christ (Matt 24:31) after the tribulation of those days (Matt 24:29). Nothing has ever tampered more with the revealed Biblical chronology than trying to fit a pre-trib rapture where it doesn't belong and quite obviously does not fit. God has been good to us and made the scriptures clear and uncomplicated on the issue.



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David Winter

 2017/6/20 17:41Profile





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