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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Where did the doctrine of the Pretrib Rapture Come From???

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staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi All,
Ive come to a conclusion although Ive said it before in a different way.
This subject is a window into many of our other beliefs and thats why it can become heated (at times),personal, very interesting as well (dont forget)and informative.
When you look through the other persons window you see their "Grace and Judgement beliefs" .You will see also their "salvation beliefs" which is closely linked .If you look beyond the Tvs and table and chairs you may see beliefs on Israel, Martyrdom on Church gatherings .Its one of those subjects that although is going to happen in the future looks straight into our present and our past .
Thats why we should respectfully continue to debate and study the subject but keep in mind that Im only looking through a glass dimly and that if I were inside the house I would see everything clearly ;where I was wrong ,where I was right ....
I cant help but think that the greatest evangelical tool that was ever at the Christians side is "his winnowing fork is in his hands" and for this reason debate on end times although it appears endless can be a valueable learning place.We do have to know what we are talking about right?when the end comes?
Yours Staff

 2017/5/7 20:12Profile









 Re: Staff

///Thats why we should respectfully continue to debate and study the subject but keep in mind that Im only looking through a glass dimly and that if I were inside the house I would see everything clearly ;///

Agreed my brother. I certainly don't have it together on this issue or any other issue. But as you remind us, I am seeing through a glass dimly.

All we have is the Holy Spirit and the word of God to test all things. The best we can do is try to be Berean in our attitude on examining these issues in humility before the Lord.

So far, I do believe there has been a good spirit thus far in our discussion of this rapture issue. I believe more grace has been exhibited on this thread. then,on other threads posted in so called rapture forums where one view is prevalent. At least here, we do try to respect one another's position. And as you have reminded us earlier in this thread to reason from the word of God.

Bro Blaine

 2017/5/7 20:22
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I used to believe mid trib to be honest but since I took some Greek and Hebrew classes and have had to parse words and study contextual construction making scripture explain scripture and using things like 2 or 3 different places in the bible to explain the meaning, for example, John the apostles style mirrors closely Daniels and some things in the Book of Hebrews confirms things in Revelation, while the Pauline epistles can sometimes bear out Eze and on and so fourth. All that said I have slowly began to look at the times of the gentiles as having a starting point and an ending point, with salvation really coming to a halt in the broader sense and narrowing extremely during the last 7 years or Daniels 70th week. I do believe there will be salvations during this time but I also believe the church won't be here on earth. Those saved by the preaching of the Jewish converts or 144000 will have to endure suffering like no other generation, I also see more than one instance of the catching away in the word of God.

The verses in Revelation 7 and 21 are those as seen in Heaven even so I will attempt to take another look at these passages and see if I can put them to the fire of the other Books that address these issues like Eze/Dan/1&2 Thes along with Rev and Matt. I still believe that this country will pretty much be a non-issue during the last days though,and also it is a good time to get a hold of God for the salvation of our loved ones. Like you I have appreciated the tone of this thread because I can see from others perspectives as well and do honestly appreciate others point of views. God Bless BroDMiller


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D.Miller

 2017/5/7 23:56Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: How many last trumpets and what will the 144,000 preach?

If we all will be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet how many last trumpets can there be? After the trumpet Jesus mentioned in Matt 24:31, after the tribulation of those days, there are no more trumpets. That is it. If a trumpet sounded seven years before how can it legitimately be called the last trumpet if seven years later there is still another trumpet (24:31) to sound?

What will the 144,000 preach? I assume it will be the saving gospel of Christ. If these tribulation believers have made their robes white with the blood of the Lamb (Rev 7:14) then there is the church. Any believer who has placed faith in Christ and been cleansed by His blood has always been considered part of the church. Darby was the very first person in church history to advocate that tribulation believers will never be part of the church. This view only appeared in church history in the 1830s therefore is a very recent innovation never seen before the 1830s.

Are tribulation believers who place their faith in Christ and are washed in His blood part of the church or aren't they. This question must be answered.


_________________
David Winter

 2017/5/8 5:50Profile









 Re: David

...Are tribulation believers who place their faith in Christ and are washed in His blood part of the church or aren't they. This question must be answered...

David, I believe the tribulation saints in Revelation are the church. Even in the great tribulation there is a remnant church.

But as I have had occasion to examine the scriptures and blog my thoughts in this thread. I come more to the conclusion that saints will go through the great tribulation. I simply see no evidence in the New Testament of a pretrib resurrection. Or to use the more popular word a pretrib rapture.

Will try to flesh out more on this later. I am still thinking this through and have to go.

😊Yes, even some of us on SI do have a part time job.😊

Do appreciate your postd in this thread brother. For I believe in the spirit of humility, we are trying to be Berean and examine this issue in light of the scriptures

bro Blaine

 2017/5/8 6:20
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

I also will do more study and finally...return with the correct position! :)


_________________
William

 2017/5/8 8:50Profile









 Re: William

Brother I am not sure what the correct position is 😊. Other then Jesus id coming back soon..😊

But certainly we can try to flesh this out in a community of grace. Do
Appreciate your thoughts, my brother.

Bro Blaine

 2017/5/8 9:45
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:

Quote:
bearmaster wrote
Brother I am not sure what the correct position is 😊. Other then Jesus id coming back soon..😊


What? The correct position is my position!

LOLOLOL Isn't that what we all think about it?!! :) :) If we were on the phone brother, I would have said it and chuckled!!

But for those who don't know me, I am joking!

God bless us all as we go forth today in Jesus name!
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2017/5/10 7:04Profile









 Re: Lysa

Sister love, you humor.😊 if we be honest with ourselves, I am sure sure we think that way about a lot of scripture truth. That my understanding is the correct understanding.

The more, I stay in the word of God, I find myself saying 5 words of late. "Lord I simply don't know.".

My Siater be blessed this day in Jesus.

Bro Blaine

 2017/5/10 7:21
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:


To let you know about to my previous funny statement... I was never able to joke about the end times. I was on it and serious about it and would debate with people on SI about it until the Lord showed me that people have lost friends and family members over their inability to stop arguing about it.

And then to top it off, I felt him ask me how many in the last couple hundred of years have actually "seen" this hard stance belief of their's come to pass? The Lord has a way of getting my attention as I said, none.

I felt him saying, "That's right, none. They lost friends and family because of it and also lost their witness with those people, is that what you want for you life?"

I'm not insinuating that anyone is arguing about it, on the contrary, this is one of the most calmer threads on this subject in years!! That is awesome!

God bless you all,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2017/5/10 7:26Profile





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