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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Greg

You echo my sentiment. This Presb church is by far the best one I have attended as far as what I hear from the pulpit. I am not hearing alot of the pastors life or how you fit in to the bible like the modern preachers are doing. It is the reason I stay there because I literally takes notes in this church. Pastor will sometimes give out a word from the original language and talk about it briefly and so forth. He even uses one of those old fashioned pulpits like D James Kennedy did. Where you walk up into it with a huge bible on top of it. God is very revered in this church!


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John

 2017/2/26 21:03Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re: Denominations

Brothers,

Although I understand the factors leading to the establishment of different denominations and that men have had to leave certain expressions of local churches for various reasons throughout history, I am pretty sure that if we dig deep enough, the reasons were fleshly and human.

To me, the very fact that we name a local church / denomination different from another, we are contributing to divisions in Christ's church.
There is one Christ, one Savior, one Lord, one Baptism.

Men are the ones who decided to divide and name and shame etc.

Surely heresy and wrong doctrine etc. can be confronted and dealt with without starting a new denomination?

I know we will probably never visibly reach perfection in this area and most of us, for now, need to take the good with the not so good in the local churches we are attending.
Let us be a force for good, godly and biblically faithful teaching and practice wherever we are.

Blessings,


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William

 2017/2/27 1:42Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Unfortunately, it is difficult to "know" a church by its name nowadays. Many of the denominational churches where I live have launched themselves into a moral and doctrinal abyss that is devoid of essential biblical doctrines.

Just this week, one of the congregations was featured in a local newspaper for holding LGBT square dances at the church. Another church in our neighborhood hung up a "Black Lives Matter" vinyl banner last year and hasn't taken it down since (despite, oddly enough, the congregation consisting of primarily Caucasians). Yet another local denominational church has opened up their buildings for Muslim prayers so that they could "take a stand" against Trump's recent immigration moratorium.

I was reading a conversation between some "Christian" people on a message board. They were taking turns lambasting President Trump for "pushing religion" at his inauguration and even in a few speeches. They spoke about how he should be "impeached" -- until one of them mentioned that he was more afraid of Vice President Mike Pence taking over because he is a "religious zealot" who is "more dangerous" because he truly "believes" his faith.

Over the last eight years, we've seen people trying to lump churches with traditional biblical stands into the same group as vile hate-mongering groups like the "Westboro Baptist Church" cult. If you believe in the biblical view of marriage, divorce, sexuality, modesty, etc., such people will try to lump you with radical ideologues or hate-filled congregations.

When it comes to fellowship with a local church body, I would definitely pray for the Lord's guidance. Since we are all flawed on this side of the "glass darkly," we won't find a "perfect church." Our very presence might pollute it (if one actually existed). We don't go for indoctrination. We don't go for compliance. We don't go out of some formal compulsion. Rather, we go to encourage and be encouraged. We go to fellowship with others that long to know and walk with Christ Jesus.


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Christopher

 2017/2/27 2:26Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

...the visible church is not doing very well, is she?

We really need to pay attention to the writings of ministers like AW Tozer. who, although part of a "denomination" was not ruled by this but tried to remain faithful to God and his Word, and His purpose with the church.

Judgement will begin, and has begun, in the house of God.

The tares and the wheat grow up side by side....

Let us pray...


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William

 2017/2/27 4:40Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:


YOU WILL NEVER FIND A PERFECT CHURCH OR PASTOR.

Why? Because neither are you perfect, nor your beliefs. That little nugget took some time to sink into my skull!

Bro, God created us "imperfect" and still loves us knowing this. So if you and I are imperfect, what is the chance of every pastor and preacher also being imperfect?! Yep, 100%?!!

Bro, it's like looking for a spouse, you will never, ever find a perfect spouse but you can find someone you can live with and love all the days of your life!

Find a church and LOVE THEM!!

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2017/2/27 6:16Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Although I understand the factors leading to the establishment of different denominations and that men have had to leave certain expressions of local churches for various reasons throughout history, I am pretty sure that if we dig deep enough, the reasons were fleshly and human.



Brother,

I actually recently wrote an short ebook touching on this subject. It is important to realize we are a part of a 2000 year old Church and to try and find our connection with what believers have always held to, even in starting a house church gathering. I believe this short ebook is applicable on many levels to what you are sharing, it can be downloaded freely here: https://booklaunch.io/greggordon2/58b0f02c59ec0c42696f796c

Sister, also shares an important thought that you started, we are just human flesh and blood. We are frail, faulty and feeble. If we just read the Gospels we see the disciples constantly failing, yet these are the one's Christ was establishing as the Church on the earth.

Men have not changed they are still fumbling, feeble and failing. That might be one of the biggest mysteries why God would entrust his work in the hands of men, his name and reputation has been so marred, yet in His wisdom which is beyond our understanding this is the way God intended.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/2/27 7:07Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother John

This may be a silly question but have you prayed about what church the Lord wants you to offer your gifts, services, thanksgivings and praises up to Him ?
At the end of the day do the few things you dislike/disagree with outweigh all the things you like? If so better to move on sooner than later....

One more thing.... we're in a spiritual war and when we look at it in these terms it helps to remind us of how we are to proceed- for instance in a war zone if a solider gets disconnected from his platoon he is (for the most part) ineffective, however when he is reconnected and his training (gifts) is identified then he can be utilized/mobilized.
So identify your gifts and seek to offer them to Gods glory and the "platoon" or church home will find you in the sense that you will meet with them out in the battle and fellowship will flow from a common purpose which in my experience supersedes semantics of maturity and theology-

Hope that helps and pray your talents are put into service to our King that He may be glorified in all you do:)


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Fletcher

 2017/2/27 8:26Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

The prayer of our Lord in John 17 is for unity:
"That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me. And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one." (John 17:21,22) The Apostle Paul says this: “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:” (Ephesians 4:13).

Many Denominations were founded in times of revival by men of God that had a revelation of certain truths in the Word of God. However, the same thing that ended many revivals, also choked the life out of these denominations, and that is that man attempted to organize what God had began, and certain truths in the scriptures were emphasized while others were neglected.

Denominations have not brought unity to the Body of Christ, but are the cause of much disunity. "For while one said, I am of Paul (Baptist, Methodist,
etc.); and another, I am of Apollos (Pentecostal, AOG,
etc.); are you not carnal?" (1Cor.3:4)

The dissatisfaction of Christians with the Denominations has resulted in many believers breaking fellowship with other believers and being cut off from the true fellowship within the Body of Christ that the Lord desires for us all. "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." (Hebrews 10:25).

We should hold fast to the Head and seek the true fellowship of the Body of Christ, that is not an organization but that is a living, breathing organism that is alive, having it's life in Jesus Christ and functioning by the Spirit of God.


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Mike

 2017/2/27 8:43Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

As we relocate and leave our home fellowship behind, sadly, we are open to re-enter the world of Sunday brick and mortar churches. This thread is helping me to pray specifically that we will quickly find one or two like minded believing couples that the Lord fastens us to in love within such a "church". Jesus only gave Himself fully to 12 and most fully to only 3 or so it seems. My heart wants to be pliable in the Lord and not proud, but also to be wise in Him and to cut away from the current of the American church. I believe that such a close bond with only a few believers with long lives in the faith will help offset and make small those splinters I find in the eye of the American church and to remove the planks in my own. That is my prayer of "Lord, at least this please, or redirect my prayer to what pleases you."


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Tim

 2017/2/27 9:28Profile









 Re:

I thought in light of the ongoing discussion this short 25 minute video would be informative.

The video takes a thoughtful look at the contemporary church as we perceive it. And then exhorts us to get back to "who" the church is in the New Testament. The video is non-judgemental. But yet it takes a Berean look at the contemporary church. And then calls us to be the church that Jesus died for.

https://youtu.be/cVWT5M3hCd4

In the end my heart cries out to be a part of a small family of believers. A family of believers who love Jesus and who love one another.

May God raise up such a church here in America.

Bro Blaine



 2017/2/27 9:39





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