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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is happening beneath the headcovering?

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MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3345
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Heydave...Anyway I'm off to make dinner for my wife now. Hope that's not frowned upon. Just something I like to do occasionally on a Friday.


Brother Dave, I'm sure someone is looking for a scripture right now to see if that's ok. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2016/11/25 11:28Profile









 Re: to Sree

hi Sree,
I just wanted to say something publicly to you my brother. First I am sorry if I slighted you or gave you the impression of slighting you in our back and forth comments. Please forgive me. Second I respect you for your zeal and your commitment towards the Lord in every respect of your christian life. That is commendable and you are a godly example for others to follow. Thirdly I thank you for your service in the Kingdom and in the local body of Christ in which you serve, again a tremendous example in this day and age.

I just wanted to say those things to you because in the heat of these discussions it is easy to become discouraged, even in a small way. That has happened to me many times in the past but I sense from your words you probably are not discouraged at all about all this. Even so it is a sticky subject and many have been hurt by churches who "appear" to be legalistic and condemning. I do not sense that is in your heart at all but it could be construed by some of the things you have written.

Thats all I have to say about this matter brother, we will never solve these differences so eventually we must put them aside and live in peace with one another. I pray you will continue to be a light and a help to those you serve alongside in His Body.

 2016/11/25 11:29
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1868


 Re:

Quote:
So your statement "I have NEVER come across a sister who DOES NOT cover her head BUT do not have a real gentle submitting spirit"



Quote:

Sree,

You wrote just a few pages back...

"It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head but having a gentle and meek submitting spirit.





If I compare what you have said that I have written and what you have found as a mistake in what I have written. They do not match! It appears that did not say "but do NOT have".

I admit the use of double negative is very specific to certain culture which others find very difficult to understand. Also double negatives are interpreted differently by different people speaking the same language. For example in India, "I do not see nothing" means you saw something. But in US it means they did not see anything!

All I meant is very simple, I have not fellowshiped with a sister who does not cover her head and also have a gentle submitting spirit. I do not see them go together. This just my observation, which is bound to change. I do not infer anything substantial from this observation other than the connection between uncovered head and feminist movement.

Quote:
If she DOES NOT have a gentle and submitting spirit, why would you ask them to pray and prophesy in your meetings?



That is a good question. I do not believe only gentle sisters should pray or prophesy in the church. We all know God gives his grace only to Humble people but resists the proud. But we all keep identifying some kind of pride in us every now and then (at least I do). Does it mean we (or I) should stop praying and prophesying in the Church because we still keep finding pride inside us?

Praying and prophesying is not for perfect people. If God is patient with a person then why should any church leader lose his patience with a sister? I rather test the spirit of prayer and prophesying in my church. If the spirit is right then I do not mind what level they are in attaining gentle and submitting spirit. If the spirit is not right, after the meeting I might have a word with them.

Though I said that I do not find them having a gentle and submitting spirit, it does not mean they are rebellious sisters. They may not have attained the level of Biblical submission or they might be struggling in the area of submission. But as long as they are fighting the good fight, I do not have any problem with them. In fact if I get a chance to speak about Head Covering, I will encourage them to cover their head, so that God's grace will not be hindered in their good fight.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/25 11:38Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3345
Texas

 Re:

So someone picked out "one" topic in the word that's created almost 2000 views and 72 responses, and I have no problem with that. Now does this same person adhere, absolutely and totally to all scripture themselves? I don't think it's wise to come here condemning others on scripture on head coverings, and not be following every scripture in the word of God completely in your own life, isn't this what we call being a hypocrite?


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Bill

 2016/11/25 11:56Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1868


 Re:

Quote:

Even so it is a sticky subject and many have been hurt by churches who "appear" to be legalistic and condemning.



Dear awakened, I always appreciated you for your honest testimony. Which is again visible in your post. God has great purpose for honest people, I have no doubt about it. Even recently a brother in my Church was talking about your honest testimony, that you shared in one of the Zac Poonen conferences and how it helped him. Even without you knowing, you have influenced other believers! This is greatness of the Gospel that we believe. It can impact lives that we do not even see.

I totally agree with the above quoted verse of yours. In fact during our heated discussion here, I knew exactly where you were going. Since as far as I know, I was not legalistic about this subject, it did not bother me much. May be the more I grow in the Lord I will change. Even my wife did not like some of my posts here, especially on my observation! She felt people could misinterpret them easily. Again I am sorry if I have hurt anyone by posting my observation, may be it was my foolishness and immaturity. Again like I said in my very first post, I am willing to change my observation the more I see the christian world. I am not holding my observation as an absolute truth.

I know how legalistic stands taken by Church leadership, especially those claiming to hold the complete truth, can hurt innocent sheep. I was personally victim of few legalistic church leaders, I will share my testimony when we meet again. Those were not easy times at all. If not for God's grace and mercy, I would have easily got offended and fallen of my faith.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/25 11:57Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: /// I have not fellowshiped with a sister who does not cover her head and also have a gentle submitting spirit. I do not see them go together. This just my observation,..///

I know of a Preacher that is represented on SI (the following statement is not on SI) :

He was asked about the issue of head covering : One of the things that he said while speaking on the issue was basically this :
I do not know what it is but it has been my observation that most of the woman that I know that wear a head dress are very disrespectful to there husbands.

I Believe he was telling the truth as to his observations. I also believe that you are telling the truth by your observations but such provocative statements have no need in such discussion.

edit clarity

 2016/11/25 12:30Profile









 Re: to Sree

Thank you brother Sree, that is very encouraging to me.

I too have a wife who is much wiser than me:-) I have learned when I listen to her things go well for me and when I ignore her counsel I usually end up with egg on my face:-)

On that subject I asked her this morning that if I had an epiphany (and I am open to it) about women and head coverings and if I was adamant that they wear them in church, would she submit to me? She told me that she would reluctantly do so. I believe her. She has followed me across the world and I have put her into many, many difficult church situations and she has been through the mill with me. And all the while she has submitted to me even when I have been wrong. In my mind that is a submissive wife and yet she does not cover her head. So now you can no longer say that you do not know a meek, submissive women who does not cover her head:-)

 2016/11/25 12:41
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 sree

RE : /// Again I am sorry if I have hurt anyone by posting my observation, may be it was my foolishness and immaturity.///

What I wrote was before reading this post.

Thank you Sree

 2016/11/25 12:56Profile









 Re:

"I do not know what it is but it has been my observation that most of the woman that I know that wear a head dress are very disrespectful to there husbands."

I can understand that being the case - if the woman feels like she is being forced to do things that she does not agree with. And I am not talking about head coverings now...just normal day to day life living as husbands and wives.

I would humbly submit this scripture below applies to us if and when we "force" our wives to comply with our rulings.
"In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat your wife with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. Treat her as you should so your prayers will not be hindered." (1 Pt 3:7)

The irony of this passage is that when we force our wives to do something that we believe is scripturally correct but they are very uncomfortable with - we can easily "provoke them to wrath" or resentment towards us as husbands.

I am not making an excuse for resentment at all, just trying to understand why that teacher would have observed that about women who covered their heads.

 2016/11/25 13:06
sermonindex
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 Re:

Saints,

Praise the Lord that this thread has ended on a good note and that brethren humbled themselves preserving the unity of the faith in some cases in this discussion.

It is interesting that the thread was started by a sister humbly seeking counsel and looking for the truth of this practice as she was led by the Holy Spirit. No brother was forcing her or telling her, she was being "taught of God". That is the best place to leave this and it is not wrong to discuss it but in the end only in a sisters personal relationship can they really get from the Lord the confirmation to wear a head covering.

If a brother forces it on their wive I am not sure what fruit if any would come from that. That is why I believe if an assembly believes in headcovering they should not force all to wear it but all the sisters to come to faith in the practice as honouring the Lord.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/11/25 13:55Profile





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