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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is happening beneath the headcovering?

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Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Sree,

You never responded to my earlier post about your confusing statements by your use of words and grammar. I was not trying to be rude, I wanted you to see that for all your posting your writing is sometimes ambiguous and that could be the reason you think you are being mis-quoted. I was hoping you would clarify it in more straight forward English.


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Dave

 2016/11/25 8:51Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1868


 Re:

Quote:

Sree, can you show us evidence this is the correct translation?



I as far as I know, I answered your post where you thought there was some contradiction in logic. Please check the thread again. I win bread for my family writing programming logic, I hope know at least something about logically correct statement.

I agree that the verse 16 can also be translated as no SUCH, but that translation makes no sense. There is no sense in the Apostle writing strong verses from 3 to 15 supporting the need for head covering and giving everything up in verse 16, saying "we do not follow this custom".

Verse 10 clearly sounds like a command :- 10 Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

I do not find any confusion in this scripture unless someone really tries to dig it up to find reasons for not obeying it. If anyone reads it with an open mind to obey, they will definitely end up with conclusion that this is a command of God.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/25 9:12Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: Sree

Well Sree, unless you have a different version of the SI forum than me, I can see no answer to my post. The only posts you have made since that one of mine was to answer Lysa twice. You certainly have not clarified the quote I highlighted. Also it is not being very humble of you to say that you write programming logic, so therefore your statement was logically correct. Maybe that's the issue. Computers and people don't use the same language! lol :)

What you wrote above is wrong. It is not that it 'can' be translated 'such', but 'such' or 'Like' is what the actual word means. It cannot mean 'other' and to prefer that as a translation, just because it seems to make more sense to you is not a good argument. You are changing meanings to fit your presumption.

Either way, is it a custom or a command?


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Dave

 2016/11/25 9:42Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

verse : 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels

This is why I wrote : ///And use a literal translation and use a concordance and do a word study on words such as : exousia///



The word "symbol" does not seem to be in the Greek.

 2016/11/25 9:58Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1868


 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
Are you dogmatic about it or does it not bother you?


I am not dogmatic or adamant about it. Which means as Greg said, the head covering will not prevent me from fellowshiping with another sister. Like I said I have sisters in my church who do not cover their head. I really value them and encourage them to pray and prophesy in the Church just like any other sister who covers her head. But if this sister asks me a question about head covering, I will tell her what I believe is right. Does it make me dogmatic or adamant about my belief in head covering? I do not think so.

For example many men of God in the past like John Wesley believed in infant baptism. I do not believe it is right. But if Wesley was alive today, I will take every step to meet with him or visit his church. It will not prevent me from fellowshiping with him. But if I get an opportunity to discuss infant baptism with Wesley then I will tell him straight that he is wrong.




This the posting I made in response to your post where you pointed out that there is a contradiction in my logic.

As a person who is not legalistic about head covering, it is not fitting for me to post so much on this thread. I have made my point clear. If people judge I am legalist because I uphold the word of God then I can only say that I am dead to their opinion.

My English language skills are on par with anyone here. Unlike those who are born in USA, a person working in USA as a legal immigrant has to prove his English language skills to enter this nation. My only problem is I type at express speed because I type day in and day out! I am a very poor proof reader. Normally people who do programming are very poor in testing. Hence I can make mistakes in my typing.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/25 10:07Profile









 Re:

People tend to follow the customs of the church they were raised in and leaders that they are most heavily influenced by. Particularly when they are first saved. This is an indisputable fact imho.

I am surprised that more is not being discussed about this aspect?

Now when you have very strong and strict leadership it is almost impossible to change the customs and practised of that movement until the founders either pass on or die.

This is the way it has been since the beginning.

And as customs and practices are changed with the changing of the guard some people become very uncomfortable and leave those churches. They eventually find a church that they are more comfortable with or they start their own.

This is why we have so many denominations and groups and this is why we have strict customs being followed by all the churches under the authority of strong leaders. There is nothing wrong with this. It is normal and perfectly acceptable.

Where it does get squirly in regard to non-essential issues; is when those leaders and churches claim that they are right and everybody else is wrong but not just wrong, actually in sin.

This is the bigger issue here and why so many believers are interested in this topic. It's not that they have a morbid fascination with brothers and sisters fighting over this, it is more that they are confused and want answers.

However it doesn't help them to speak up when those who take a hard line stance on this suggest that they are disobedient or sinners and or unsubmissive wives if they question this custom. And that is what you have happening here. Maybe that is not the intent but that is what is being perceived by many onlookers and until grace and humility is shown over.non-essential doctrines you will only have a few people speaking up.

 2016/11/25 10:12
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Sree, Do you ever admit when you have made a mistake??

Edit /Added: I do see you admit to typing mistakes, but not admitting a mistakes in particular.
This is the post I mean, not the one you refer to.
____________________________________________________________
Sree,

You wrote just a few pages back...

"It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head but having a gentle and meek submitting spirit. I have seen sisters who cover their head but do not have a real gentle submitting spirit but I have not seen the vice versa. I am not saying there is no sister like that. But I am yet to see one."

Can I appeal to you as a brother. There seems to be a lot to misunderstand in what you have written and what you think you have written. Maybe it is down to your English or lack of checking what you write, but it is not clear what you said above is what you claim you did not say. Maybe you should clarify this statement as it is written in a confusing way using double negatives, etc.
____________________________________________________________

What I mean about double negatives is this. If I say " I don't have no knowledge about computers", that is a double negative and could be read that if you don't have 'no knowledge' that means you 'DO have knowledge about computers'.

So your statement "I have NEVER come across a sister who DOES NOT cover her head BUT do not have a real gentle submitting spirit" (Caps added to clarify words that cause a problem)is not clear in what you are saying.
Are you saying 'EVERY sister I have come across who does not cover head DOES NOT have a gentle and submitting spirit' or 'EVERY sister I have come across does have a gentle and submitting spirit'?

If she DOES NOT have a gentle and submitting spirit, why would you ask them to pray and prophesy in your meetings?


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Dave

 2016/11/25 10:32Profile









 Re:

brother Dave,
I think it is clear from Srees writings that of all the women he has met, in his opinion none of them displayed a gentle and meek, submitting spirit.

A better use of the english language would be to write the statement like this:
"It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head AND YET HAS a gentle and meek submitting spirit."

Sree only mentioned that sisters are allowed to pray and prophecy in his church but these are sisters who cover their head.

This is the custom in all CFC churches. Sisters are not required to cover their heads however if they want to pray or prophecy then they must cover their heads.

 2016/11/25 11:12
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 747
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"Bro, I am not trying start a war with you but if I may say so, every time you or drifter click on this thread to make a comment or to even see what's being said, you do know you are contributing to the amount of views as well?"

Yes I know, and I am trying lately to avoid endless debates about this kind of thing. Not to say people shouldn't have legitimate questions answered, but should some question about head covering be more important than persecuted saints and what we can do to help them? I think the numbers speak for themselves; not many people really want to know about persecuted saints, because that would require time to care, to pray for them, possible financial help etc. I am not trying to browbeat any one on here, but please saints, these people need your help.


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Nigel Holland

 2016/11/25 11:16Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Mark,

That may be so....but then this statement above from Sree would not make sense.

" Like I said I have sisters in my church who do not cover their head. I really value them and encourage them to pray and prophesy in the Church just like any other sister who covers her head."

Unless he means he makes them cover their head if they want to prophesy and pray, even though they don't practice that custom?? I don't know it's beyond me!!

Edit: Anyway I'm off to make dinner for my wife now. Hope that's not frowned upon. Just something I like to do occasionally on a Friday.


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Dave

 2016/11/25 11:17Profile





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