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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5678


Bear our options were limited. There was no on fire radical for Jesus running for office. If christians did not vote against HC they would have been enabling a great evil.

Didn't Bonhoeffer say that to do nothing in the face of evil is evil?


 2016/11/9 21:28Profile

Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1672
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re: A Subtle but Greater Deception...

Bear, you know I don't vote. Reason why is I have pretty much the same view as you do about Christians and the world system. Your sense of "oh, no" is well anchored.

American Christians long ago, before your or I were born, to place their hearts and souls into this government, this Constitution. It was never intended that this framework should simply be an ordering of government. It was always intended to serve as a creed for people to live by.

We are born and raised in this soup. When we are born again and lifted from this to be seated in heavenly places with Christ, we are still yet covered, drenched and dripping in it. Our baptism into Christ is accompanied by our dis-baptism (if that is a word) out of that soup. But, God doesn't wipe us all off. We are allowed, for whatever reason in the process of our sanctification, to drip dry. Some of us awaken to this truth and we see the image of Caesar on ourselves, the corrupting remnants of the soup, and we run to the Fountain to be washed clean of it. Others of us are just not there.

Prophets are God's means of awakening His people to their dangerous state. I have the sentiment that you have. I believe we are at history's great moment and the return of Jesus is imminent in such a way that those events which must precede His coming are already in actual motion. I am deeply concerned that so many still with the smell of the soup on them still like the taste of it. I believe they will not endure and will be deceived. I believe their government --- their repository of hope for a better anything --- will lure them back into that familiar cauldron. Is the time now for a prophetic call to the church?

But, God preserves a remnant for Himself. I am trying to patiently wait just now without the anxiety of an urge to prophesy. Not that I am not anxious in that way. I am, brother. I am. But, something in my own spirit has said "rest and wait". The peace of God passes understanding. I believe I understand where we are in time and circumstance. But, if Jesus says to my spirit, "Peace, be still," I know that in an instant He can summon waves of urgency into any one or more of His people to stand at the appointed moments and places known to Him and send a tide of prophetic, anointed calls to awaken and repent.

Bear, is He summoning you to that now? May He do so. Is He not clearly commanding you? May you rest and wait, too. I am with you, bro.


 2016/11/10 7:57Profile

 Re: Tim

Brother so agree with your encouraging words. At least I'm not the only one in the forum who feels this way. I do not know if He is summoning me out of urgency to prophesy. I will certainly make no such claim. But I do see an urgency to write what I feel in my spirit. If people take heed, Amen. If not, Amen.

But brother I'm certainly with you in resting in Jesus.


 2016/11/10 8:35

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37703
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Didn't Bonhoeffer say that to do nothing in the face of evil is evil?

The greatest way to do good in an evil time is to be lights for Jesus, share the Good News of the Gospel. Our hope is not in a presidential choice.

Bonhoeffer also said:

“The messengers of Jesus will be hated to the end of time. They will be blamed for all the divisions which rend cities and homes. Jesus and his disciples will be condemned on all sides for undermining family life, and for leading the nation astray; they will be called crazy fanatics and disturbers of the peace. The disciples will be sorely tempted to desert their Lord. But the end is also near, and they must hold on and persevere until it comes. Only he will he blessed who remains loyal to Jesus and his word until the end. But when the end comes, the hostility towards Jesus and his disciples will be made manifest the whole world over, and only then must the messengers flee from city to city, in order that they may proclaim the Word where it can still find a hearing. If they run away then, they will not be running away from the Word, but holding fast to it.

The Christian will be hounded from place to place, subjected to physical assault, maltreatment and death of every kind. We are ap­proaching an age of widespread persecution. Therein lies the true significance of all the movements and conflicts of our age. Our adversaries seek to root out the Christian Church and the Christian faith because they cannot live side by side with us, because they see in every word we utter and every deed we do, even when they are not specifically directed against them, a condemnation of their own words and deeds. They are not far wrong. They suspect too that we are indifferent to their condemnation. Indeed they must admit that it is utterly futile to condemn us. We do not reciprocate their hatred and contention, although they would like it better if we did, and so sink to their own level."

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/11/10 8:39Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3325


Wrong Thread.


 2016/11/10 9:41Profile


I think it is awesome if people choose not to vote, just don't go around trying to make everybody else feel lousy or in some cases even call them a sinner.

So many internet prophets have popped up during this election cycle, so many who think they know what God is and is not about to do or has done. Much of what goes on in this world is a result of man doing his own thing. God never made puppets but made us in His image with some modicum of common sense and ability to follow some simple rules. Governing ourselves is one of those things. Having the freedom to live in the world and participate in that process is neither sinful or becoming "of" this world. Those who continue to throw up all kinds of straw men to guilt others around to their point of view need to check their hearts. Honestly brothers, it shows that you are way more concerned about the matters of this world than you care to admit.

Lets check our hearts, all of us and watch out for that sneaky religious devil who tempts the saints to appear more spiritual than they actually are.

Let people alone, if they want to vote, ignore them and live your life the way you want to. God will be pleased with such a heart. God bless and I hope you still love me for speaking my mind:-)

 2016/11/10 11:10

Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan



Thanks for sharing and stepping out in faith on this. I agree with what you shared and I too have been having many checks in my spirit as well. I do not claim to have all the answers but I know that each of us needs to be obedient to what the Holy Spirit is laying on our heart.

We should not be fearful in sharing and proclaiming what the Lord is leading us to share either.

I have said a while back that in 1997-98 time frame when BC was President that I saw him and HRC together and felt very strongly that one day she would have something to do with either becoming President or as it now appears at least running for President.

Many Christians I know were encouraging me to vote for DT and I have not voted since 1996. As I listened to their reasoning along with my wife's dislike for HRC and her beliefs I actually requested two absentee ballots for my wife and I and we filled them out with one primary thought in mind and that being abortion and that the next President would appoint at least one and up to several Supreme Court Justices.

I continued to be in prayerful pleading, pondering, seeking, intercession, and supplication as to the Lords leading and will being done. Not only for this Nation but more so for the body of Christ and the church.

The Lord has put much of what you shared on my heart especially the very words, Peace, Peace. We had our ballots filled out for a week or so and finally I could not submit it.

Here was the last verses the Lord put on my heart.

Psalms 118:8-9 KJV It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (9) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

I shared also that the Lord had quickened some time back when Jesus went into the garden to pray with several disciples and He prayed 3 times asking the Father that if there were any way for this cup to pass to let it pass but nevertheless not His will but the Fathers will be done.

Each time, He went back to His disciples He found them sleeping. It was at this time that I feared for the church that it too would be found sleeping and not watchful and prayerful.

Now before everyone thinks I am condemning the whole church lets remember that these sleeping disciples were all eventually saved.

It was my brother who called me early Wednesday morning to tell me DT won. While I have been at peace with my decision not to vote I do not fault those who did vote.

Regardless of who won the election it was Gods 100% Sovereign choice. Prior to knowing the outcome and the Lord sharing the garden experience I did feel that HRC would have been the better choice as to wake up the sleeping church but now the urgency to be watchful, prayerful, and standing for the truth is even greater.

Another thought that came as well was the story of Hezekiah when the Lord told him through the prophet Isaiah to get his house in order because he would surely die and not live.

Yet through Hezekiah's prayers God heard his cry and healed him, added 15 years to his life, and delivered him and the city from the hand of the King of Assyria.

At this point I am continuing to diligently watching and praying. I do not presume to know that God is granting a reprieve to the Nation at this time and extend our daylight, if so, it would be for the sole purpose of adding souls to the Kingdom and for the elect to get their house in order.

On the other hand, while HRC being elected would have certainly been a curse upon this Nation, I am not convinced that DT is not a more severe and subtle form of judgement.

Jeremiah 17:5-6 KJV Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. (6) For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

Isaiah 30:1-3 KJV Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: (2) That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt! (3) Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.

David Fella

 2016/11/10 14:12Profile

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3612

 Re: A Subtle but Greater Deception...

"American evangelicals have gotten Donald Trump. They have rejected Christ for a materialistic billionaire. What will be the cost that these evangelicals will have to endure. Only time will tell"

Blaine, you are painting those that voted for Donald Trump with a broad brush, and you do not see the hand of God in this election.

Donald Trump was elected president because unlike in 2004 and 2008 Christians prayed and then voted. The election of Donald Trump was nothing short of a miracle that Hillary Clinton, Obama, the polls, or the liberal media saw coming.

The prayer warriors and the prayer networks that I am associated with are all seeking the Kingdom of God first. Our trust is not in a man or a political system, but we believe the Word of God that Christians are to be salt and light in their society to uphold righteousness and justice in the region and nation where they live.

God's will is to save men, and not to destroy them. God's will is that our nation would be healed and restored, not destroyed by the destroyer. We pray for the leaders in our land so that we might live quite and peaceable lives as the scriptures proclaim.

This election to most of us is all about the Supreme Court Justices that will shape the laws of the land for decades to come. We now have an excellent opportunity to see abortion and same sex marriage come down. We will have a president that will be a friend to Israel and will reject the Iran deal which is only propelling Iran's nuclear program.

Donald Trump has many flaws and He will need the help of God to succeed. He will have to overcome a liberal news media that is hostile to him and his policies.

Hillary Clinton is much more wicked than anyone has ever imagined, and all of the truth is going to come out, and the Clintons are likely to spend their remaining years in prison. The great exposure of Hillary Clinton thus far is directly related to the prayers of the saints that ultimately cost her the election.

Greg has quoted Bonhoeffer, who was one of the few pastors in Nazi Germany that stood up to the evil Nazi regime, which ultimately cost him his life. Bonhoeffer wrote a book in which a good part of it deals with the Sermon on the Mount.Did you know that the Kingdom minded Bonhoeffer was involved in the political process in Germany and worked with the underground to have Hitler assassinated? Did you know that the great intercessor Rees Howells said that "Hitler must be destroyed." There have been great men throughout history that have participated in the political process that were not corrupted by it but were used by God to change things for the better.

God has intervened on behalf of the Ekklesia and on behalf of the nation, and I am thankful that for this election there was much prayer going up to the throne of grace and there was a high turnout of evangelical Christians that got out and voted.


 2016/11/10 14:31Profile

Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK


Well I just watched Trump and Obama after they came out of a one and half hour private meeting together. They were so pally and Trump was praising up Obama and looking forward to working with him!
I wonder what happened in that meeting? I think Trump might have been hit with that 'flashy thing' that alters your mind :) lol. Or maybe Obama showed him how little control he will have anyway as they have to obey the real rulers of this world.

Anyway it just reinforces what I wrote on the other thread, that I think Trump will prove to be just as much a part of the elite system as all the others. We are the daft ones who think that we we have a choice that makes any difference. They just have slightly different flavors, but they are all really the same substance. Think about it, did any of the previous Presidents (including so called Christian ones) reverse any ungodly law?

Although most on here are not putting their trust in a man, I am sure that many other evangelicals in the nation are.
It's time to be wise. Watch and pray!


 2016/11/10 14:46Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5678


Dfella wrote: "Psalms 118:8-9 KJV It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (9) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes."

But even David busted out his sling or sword as was necessary. God did not wield it for him.

The right to vote in a free nation is a tool or even a weapon if you will.

Prayer and fasting are more important weapons, but why not use both?


 2016/11/10 15:26Profile

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